This week our guest’s clients know him as the guy who helped more than 100 brands and businesses grow their traffic, leads, and sales using his Launch to Profit Methodology. He’s the brains behind some of the most successful and profitable marketing and sales campaigns in the past decade. This includes a record-setting Kickstarter campaign that grossed $453k in 33 days, book launches that have landed authors on the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and USA Today bestseller lists and more than a dozen product launches that have generated $100,000+ in sales in less than 30 days. He is none other than email marketing genius Tom Morkes. Tom drops by to tell us his secret strategies for creating engaging and profitable email marketing campaigns. He gives us advice on how to avoid common copywriting pitfalls, how to target the right audience for our niche, and how to communicate effectively with those leads that go on to create solid conversions and returns. Don’t miss this amazing episode we have for you this week jam-packed with incredible email marketing advice. Have you used any of these techniques in your marketing? Jump in and join the conversation by commenting below.
Steven [00:00:01] As real estate investors, building the right audience of investors, mentors, partners and others, and speaking to them and communicating in the right way is so critically important. And so today we've got Tom Marquez, a marketing expert who's been diving deep, and how we can build that audience through networking and referrals, how we can communicate with them in the right way in a more personal way that actually builds those connections we're going for, and ends up leading to the trust and credibility that leads to more sales, more investments, and frankly, being able to hit our mission of really serving our end clients in the way that we are really shooting out for so you're not going to want to miss any of this. It's one of my favorite episodes. And so let's dive right into it.
INTRO: This is the Investor Mindset Podcasts. And I'm Steven Pesavento. For as long as I can remember, I've been obsessed with understanding how we can think better, how we can be better, and how we can do better. And each episode we explore lessons on motivation and mindset for the most successful real estate investors and entrepreneurs in the nation.
Steven: [00:01:11] Alright, guys, welcome back to the Investor Mindset Podcast. I am very excited. I've got Tom Marquez in the studio today. How are you doing, Tom?
Tom: [00:01:18] Good, it's good to be here.
Steven: [00:01:20] Well, it's really good to have you because as you guys may or may not know, Tom has built and helped over 100 plus brands and businesses grow their traffic leads, and sales using his launch to profit methodology. He's an incredible marketer, way back when he left the military, he set on a yearlong trip that really forced him to focus and start building his chops in the online sales business. Fast forward to now he's helping tons and tons of people grow their online leads and sales. And I'm really excited because he's one of the people that I looked up to, while I was launching the investor mindset summit last year, it was one of the very few summits in real estate before we dealt with this COVID-19, which put everything online. And so I'm definitely excited to dive into some of those strategies that helped me grow and learn a little bit myself as well. So you ready to dive into this Tom?
Tom: [00:02:10] Let's do it, Steven.
Steven: [00:02:12] All right. So why don't we start out by taking a look back at earlier in your life? What events or influences from your childhood shaped who you are today?
Tom: [00:02:22] Probably the most notable or obvious would be my military background. Before then it was just like the typical Midwestern life, but after that it was a west point five years commissioned officer, my last unit, I was a company commander. And the thing is only now that I got out of the military active duty in 2013. So it's not even that far removed, per se, is still a substantial part of my life. So I just kind of rolled that experience into what I did in the world of entrepreneurship, publishing and some of the other stuff I'm doing today.
Steven: [00:02:53] Yeah, that's huge. I can imagine how that military experience definitely shapes you, from a leadership perspective to understand, 'hey how do you do the things you don't necessarily want to do? But you've got to do it anyway?
Tom: [00:03:04] Yeah. And I feel like that's what a lot of entrepreneurship is, it seems really glamorous on the outside. But the reality is there's just a lot of things that you maybe don't like to do, but you have to do them. But if you do them, I mean and I'm sure we'll get into that today. It's like the results, they will come. It's about consistency, discipline, and just kind of putting one foot in front of the other.
Steven: [00:03:26] Yeah, that's so huge. And what we're going to be talking about today is really talking about building an audience, when we're real estate investors, and we're going down this path of understanding how we can reach as many investors, how many people that are either going to A invest with us, or B provide some kind of partnership, or C maybe be able to provide deals or something along the way, that credibility and having people know, like, and eventually trust you is really strong within the importance level of building a business like we're building. So what I'd love to talk a little bit about is getting in front of the right people and how to go out and build an audience. It's something that you've done very effectively. I know you help a lot of your clients who are writing books and launching books, go out and get in front of those right audiences. So when somebody is doing this for the first time, or maybe they've got and established business, and they've been doing this for a while, but they want to take it to the next level. Where should they start? Where should they begin to go out and find that right audience and start to develop it?
Tom: [00:04:25] Anytime I sit down with a client I would say the same thing we usually do, there's lots of ways we can all zoom out to where people expect me to go. Maybe it's like how do we get massive amounts of traffic and things like that. But before you get there. The simplest thing, especially if we're talking real estate investing, multifamily properties, we're talking things where there's a fewer number of people we're not talking necessarily something like apparel or something like that. The distinction here is there's fewer people we need to get in front of so even if it's a lot of people we're just a handful; I still start with what's right in front of me. So who do you know? Who are you connected to? Who do you know who knows somebody? I mean that's the best. Literally, I'd say my entire business in one of the businesses that I started, we do discount deals and entirely have grown from just referrals, and referrals upon referrals. So just like asking the right questions and asking the right people, and then they bring the audiences, of course, if you have the right people that can kind of bring other people your way. So I always just look to say, who already has an audience that I can just get in front of, instead of building my own, could I just get in front of the audience that I want to get in front of, a lot of times that's pay to play, but it doesn't always have to be. There's lots of strategies to kind of be able to tap into somebody else's audience or get in front of or get exposure to the particular group of people you're looking to get in front of through things like partnerships, joint ventures, affiliate marketing, I know there's some gray area there and stuff like that in real estate, but in terms of just getting in front of the people you know, you need to get in front of whether it's buyer or seller, so first who do you know, in your immediate circles, and then start to expand out. And then it's like who in the greater networks or groups is sure part of professional circles, things like that? Again, kind of obvious expanding from there. If we expand beyond that, then we're talking digital marketing type stuff. Again, this is very simple, it's a matter of "how much money do you want to spend, really?" and what game do you want to play? So you can play the paid advertising game, Facebook, Instagram, whatever, I think verdicts out on a lot of that stuff, because I think it's gotten exorbitantly expensive. And there's so many strange restrictions, and the game's always changing on you. So I'm not a huge fan, I know it can work for some people. So I don't want to completely say no to it. But my process has always been a combination of email marketing, or referral marketing. Because people still open emails, and people still treat their email, even if they do get a lot of spam, they still treat it kind of intimately. And so email is still I think the strongest thing there is out there. Plus, it's less expensive than say direct mail, and direct response. But I can measure it just the same, maybe even better, in some ways.
Steven: [00:06:59] Yeah, and I think email is one of those things that we often overlook how powerful it is. And that's where it all starts. So if we're going to go out, and we want to be building these relationships, and essentially doing networking to get referrals, we want to make sure that we have a way of capturing this information, we need to capture that contact info that email address, so we can have a way to interact and exchange. And so that's the only way that you can do that is via email. And you're very good at this. And so I definitely want to take a step back in just a second and talk a little bit about the networking and figuring out who that right audience is, and what the impact of that is. But when we're looking at email, what are some of those things that we can do? When we're communicating in someone's inbox, that'll end up leading it to being more effective, because you're very good at this.
Tom: [00:07:48] I think I've just started to realize how good I am. And I know that sounds weird to say out loud, but it's been one of those things where I'm like, I'm pretty good at this. But man recently, with the stuff we've been doing, and the kind of the experiments we've been running across a host of niches in industries, here's what works and some of the stuff is kind of timeless. And it's like a lot of what I find that we're doing is kind of going back to kind of like basic direct response principles, and using that as a foundation, using the new medium though, say if email, it is different than your typical newsletter. And of course, it depends on the audience too. So we'll tailor the way we're using, say, direct response style to the audience. So if I'm talking to people who are younger, and they're on Instagram, but I'm still going to use the foundational principles to get them to click through, to get them to take action on what I want them to take action with. So here's what I'd recommend. Here's what still works with email, and email copy. One is conversational tone. Don't be corporate. Nobody cares, I just I don't know, you can maybe figure it out. But I would say anytime I work with a company who has been primarily corporate, and then we just change up like the style, where it's like, oh, it's a real human being on the other end, sharing his or her opinion and this kind of advice, and it feels like it's somebody's talking to me, the engagement increases the amount of responses back just to say, Thanks or great message or whatever, we also tie a lot of storytelling into what we do. So I'm always trying to tell a story or an extract maybe an idea from it, when I'm doing this so that no matter what email I'm sending, even if it's direct response style, even if I'm asking for a sale, or a call, or whatever it is, I would always have a call to action, every single one of these things. Anyway, we're all over the place right now. But we'll bring it back, we'll organize it for people, I bring it back to that at a minimum, you can't not like getting that email. So number one is just put yourself in the position of that person, so we know who these people are. Say it's like somebody who owns an apartment building in some location, and that's who you're trying to get as a client, we'll just say that person maybe to a degree is going to be interested in what's selling around there, what could increase the property value around there? And you can always send a generic thing, or a generic email or you could copy and paste. There's lots of swipe copy and stuff like that out there. But I'd say anything that you could do where it's a conversational tone, and it's directed at things that will be specific to them or helpful to them before we even get mass personalization, but just stuff like, here's what's selling, here's what the market is doing. Can be as simple as just sharing resources they may already have, but give your spin on it, give your take on it, I think a lot of people just shy away from this from the get-go. So then all of a sudden email becomes more of a chore. It's like this kind of corporate tea thing headache. But if you treat it like a personal communication, and you write in a way that's kind of expressing who you are a little bit, you don't have to go over the top with stuff. It's not about being corny, but it's about just like presenting who you are. So that there is really another human being on the other end of that, and then making sure there is a call to action, these emails. "Hey, reply back if you have any questions about this," Hey, can we hop on a call if you have some direct that you want to talk about." Too often, I think people get into the trap of either not doing this stuff, or too when they do it, they do a kind of corporate stuff. So they're like, Oh, well, I will do a newsletter once a month, or once a week or something like that. It doesn't matter when you do it. But there's no such thing as too many emails, if it's good stuff. And it's useful. Rule number one, so don't be scared of that. The second thing is, don't feel like it has to be some sort of list or structure to it, where it's like I'm going to show you my top blog article. And here's this other thing, just talk about the problems this person might have. But these people probably have or challenge the challenges they're dealing with, share a little bit of your personal story when it's appropriate. Tie in the stories of other clients and their success stories. People are always so interested in success stories, and how people go about that. And so again, I think almost every market is the same. And I can extract stories that have learning lessons that people want to learn about. They relate to, if you're personable, you will get responses to these emails, without a doubt.
Steven: [00:11:33] Yeah, the power of story is something that people really underestimate. If you can think and be open enough to share something that's relevant with other people, then it can really go a long way. So for a lot of our investors, or for a lot of our listeners, there are people who are looking to communicate with capital investors, people are going to invest in their company, or maybe people are going to partner with them on different projects. But what's interesting is a lot of people get caught up in this feeling of "I need to sound really, really professional, I need to sound really smart." And sometimes I've noticed some of these emails, I talked to the person in real life. That's not how they talk. And so what you're saying, Tom, and I think it's so strong, is that when you can bring it back, when you can combine that I'm an expert. And I know exactly what I'm talking about with this is me as a real person, individual, not some corporate finance executive trying to talk down to you but I'm talking with you at the same level, that you'll end up getting a much stronger connection and probably lead towards the end goal that you're looking for.
Tom: [00:12:34] Yeah, and you know, that's the thing. it's like [00:12:37 Unintelligible] this stuff. It's interesting, because if you're doing direct response you are looking for direct action back to things and stuff like that. But so I treat that like...when it comes to newsletters and email writing, there's always an element of what I'm measuring, though it doesn't mean I need to make sales every single day per se. But there could also be this, the other thing is expanding out a story over time. And so when you start to write, you might be sharing things like okay, I'm going to share a little bit of a short story, there's going to be some lessons, but this is too much to get into one email. So I'm going to string this out over a sequence of emails, and then get to some heavier calls to actions. It's strange, but it works. It's the kind of stuff that if you can tie this in with what you're doing, if you can give it a go, there's lots of ways to do it. My particular approach is educational storytelling. Because it's without a doubt, people will always get something from that, or even if they already know it, it's like, oh, still an interesting story. or worst case, it was like it attempted to be good. And so then any kind of call to action, henceforth is like no big deal. Plus, there's lots of things you can layer in here too, you can do things like social proof, like when you talk about your clients, or talk about the success you've had with somebody or somebody that you are working with, this all just adds layers to this. So that's the other thing to keep in mind when it comes to email, especially an email list and audience to be able to talk about nurturing and nurturing a list and things like that. The big thing is if you just treat them with the respect that you would have, like if you were on that list, too. And so if you're always delivering, quote on quote value, I mean, there is something to be said for that if there is something of value though. It doesn't have to be over the top every time value can be found in the little things like the short story that you share the lesson extracted, and making it fun to engage in and read and be a part of. And if you're consistent with that, without a doubt, you'll get responses, you'll get replies. And then it's not going to be something that people throw away or just delete or ignore, they'll actually pay attention to what you're writing.
Steven: [00:14:22] Yeah. And so for all the listeners out there, just you can put this into perspective. If you can build a list of 100 investors who are going to invest 50 to $75,000 a year, that can end up leading to quite a significant growth in your business. It doesn't take that many. But if you can build that personal connection with people at scale, using some of these techniques that Tom's talking about, you can make a real big difference in your bottom line. And frankly, you can reach and connect with more people. You don't have to reach thousands and tens of thousands and millions of people like you might if you're selling an apparel line, like you're talking about it can be really direct. And so when somebody is going to go down this path, and they want to start figuring out "hey, how can I build the list? How can I attract people onto the list? And therefore, so that I can start interacting with them?" How should they be thinking about this in a way that'll bring people into their world and get them to start interacting?
Tom: [00:15:19] This is really interesting, because this is something I don't think a lot of people talk about. But I feel like it's really important. So there's kind of I guess you could say, there's not exactly levels, but there's phases people go through. And I know there's in copy-writing there's some things that people hook on to, but the principle is this, whatever you're selling, or whatever it is, you're trying to get somebody to buy, and we're all selling something whatever it might be, there's going to be that point where they're interested, and they do want to buy and a lot of copy, a lot of what you create can be built around that. But then what we need to say is okay, how are people finding this and engaging with this? How did they come here in the first place? And so a lot of people conflate the two things, but really the way you get the traffic, and the sequence with which they engage with, say your content, or your brand, what you're putting out there, and that leads into, say calls to actions to invest or to buy something, these will all kind of factor into the into play here. And so I'm going to have a product that will be, say, good for everybody. Because almost everything we do is good for everybody, right? Or we may be more honest, will say, well, for high net worth individuals, this is good but if we want to get more granular, and of course we could because that might be true, but it's hard to market to that broad audience. So what I like to do is I like to think about lead generation, like niche lead generation. So okay, so I pick a niche and that's what I'm going to say, I'm going to think about what is the thing that they're interested in? What would they opt into? And what would be the appropriate bridge or segue into then what I'm selling, right? In a different space, I'll give you an example. Like I have this program that can help people get affiliates. So I've done a lot of affiliate program management, I manage hundreds, thousands of affiliates at this point, we've done millions in sales, through affiliates for digital products, things like that. So I have a program that kind of teaches that how you can recruit affiliates, lots and lots of online businesses could benefit from an affiliate program. And what I found was that generally speaking, marketing to that group is not that effective. But when I zoomed in and said, Okay, how about writers, authors who would like to get their books shared by people and get reviews and then get referrals that way, that became a killer app for that. So it was like this product that could work for everybody. But I'm zooming in on one really specific niche. So we're looking at investors, I break it down that way, and say okay there's lots of investors that might meet my criteria that I want to get into this. Is it dependent on a physical location? What are the other criteria that I need to consider that would make them good or bad fits? And then we can start seeing if there's any practical categorization like, oh it has been a physical or specific location that matters. Then we start putting in artificial constraints. And this is where people have a lot of hard time with this. It's like, why would I constrain myself to just the writer-author market for this product over here, because then I can speak to them exactly, I can use the words they use, I can speak to them the way they are speaking, but I can still lead them back to the same solution that might be good for everybody else. So in this case, if we know you're talking about men versus women, or you're talking to people who own businesses previously, or do own a business right now, or whatever, I would think about the specific categorization and it may seem arbitrary a little bit, but we just want to think about something that would unite them as a group. That means that they would have certain desires and ambitions and certain kinds of collective individual ones, but collective in the context of everybody in that group kind of shares them. So desires and ambitions and fears and insecurities. Because then that's all it is. That's all lead generation is knowing, okay, I know that group, okay this is the group, it's middle aged men with businesses who are kind of struggling right now, and want more freedom and security. And maybe there's some other things and they have to be and South East USA, okay well then, we can work with that. But knowing that they're going to have some desires, and some ambitions and some fears and some insecurities about where they're at and so some of those could be universal. And that's why it's kind of you... but you want to say, okay how do I take things that are universal and focus them in just this group of people. So I know they're going to be opening this email, when I send it to them, or when they land on this page, they're going to opt in, download this product. So again, the more specific I can get with a group, the easier this is. So remember that there's a give and take on this, you want to go so narrow, there's nobody always better to go a little bit more narrow, at least in the front end, to get people into any sort of funnel where you're selling or pitching anything. Does that make sense? I know that's a lot
Steven: [00:19:30] It makes complete sense. It's absolutely a wonderful description about how to get super clear on who it is that you're targeting. And by getting clear on those people, what it sounds like is that rather than just casting the biggest net, you're going to cast a very small net and catch all of the potential fish. Rather than just trying to catch all these different types. You're going specific to that specific type of investor and in return, you're going to speak to them a lot more clearly.
Tom: [00:20:00] Yeah. And from a lead generation standpoint, marketing standpoint, I would definitely say let's go with that same analogy. Yeah, I'd like to find the pond where I know the fish are, and then I'll put the dynamite in the pond, and then we're good to go, you know what I mean? versus like, I'm going to go sail for days into the deep sea and be fishing that way. Listen, there's lots of ways to catch fish, but it depends kind of what you're after. So in that regard, that kind of will be more of my principle, it's a smaller pond, bigger impact, there's a net effect, a net positive effect to being the biggest fish in the small pond as well. I know you've covered this actually, in your podcast, I've listened to it. And so I can say without a doubt that's also true. It's like secondary and third order benefits from being that big fish in a small pond. I remember I wrote an article about it for a company that did that and was like, by just carving out like 97% of the market saying no to but just focusing on their 3%, which was still like a million dollar market cap, they were able to really benefit from that. Because what happens is, once you get like a kind of a, it's kind of a tipping point in that space, depending how big the market is, where kind of the majority people by the time the majority know about you, then you win. But even once you get a small fraction, like a small percentage of people in that group in that audience in that niche, that are interested in what you're talking about, again, you have this incredible leverage that you wouldn't if you went more broad, and that's again, a lot of people have trouble because they're just throwing out generic stuff, or they're going way too broad with stuff. They never benefit from the traffic they're receiving. Because it's really hard to think about where if somebody's coming into this general content I'm putting out there, I have a wide net, how do I then funnel them into whatever I'm doing. If it's too wide, then I don't know the right words and the right phrases and the right things to say in the right sequence. But if I narrow it down, and I know their aspirations, I know what they're scared of, and things like that I know what they want, then all of a sudden, I can tailor that and be way more effective with everything else that I produce.
Steven: [00:21:47] Yeah, that's huge. And so once you succeed in one of those smaller ponds, and you've essentially fished that pond, you can just go and start adding another pond onto it. But by being able to get very specific, you're able to target on everything that's there.
Tom: [00:22:03] Some people do that. And then they realized, wow, this is an almost limitless pond over here that I didn't even know about, and they just stick with it. It's interesting that way. So don't ever be afraid of going. And again, that's really like...again, there's kind of two pieces of this you might have a product or might have an offer that will be good for a vast array of people. But for marketing purposes, to get a real result, you want to zoom in and say let's again, maybe it starts with best guests, if you've been in this is that's the thing. This is where it gets a little tricky. How do I know that that's the right niche? You really don't until you can test it out in many ways. So a lot of times it just comes down to gut instinct. Well a couple things. One is the obvious stuff that you already know, like, you probably already have a hunch on this stuff. And then from that, if you have any experience in the space, you might have a gut instinct of who are your best investors? And then from there that's where we start, say, Okay, what's the kind of resource that would be helpful for them? What's the thing that would help them accomplish their goals? That's what we're talking about on lead gen. So now, how do we get them in front of people online? Because that's the best way to do it. It's the cheapest, fastest, and I can't meet people in real life anymore. It seems like in many cases, it's like, Okay, then we start finding the channels, where they're at groups, they are part of online, what LinkedIn groups, what Facebook groups? And what can we do to get whatever we have in front of them. So it could be groups, and then other people's newsletters. And there's lots of opportunities, once you have something that you can put in front of somebody, all of a sudden, then the doors will open to you. And you'll be able to see all these audiences that maybe you weren't able to see before, because you weren't thinking about that specific group of people. So really do zoom in on that. And then you can start saying, Okay, now how do I get people to this lead magnet, to this offer to this freebie to this content of mine. And then you can start seeing you'll find tons of stuff, a lot of people will take all of these ideas and pile them all together, try to do everything like in a straight line, and then it can become very difficult to manage.
Steven: [00:23:44] Yeah, I can definitely see that. But once you get so clear on who it is that you're going after and who it is that you're serving. And by saying no to nearly everyone else, it makes it really easy for other people to refer to you . It makes it really easy for you to be that person that other people think of once you're established in that space. So this is really powerful. Whether you're talking about marketing, whether you're talking about marketing within your local community, or whether you're talking about marketing, to go and find investors or find deals, any of those things are true. Whether you're a fixing flipper or commercial multifamily investor, buying 2/300 400-unit apartment buildings, once people know that you're the guy or girl that's going to go and do these things, it becomes easier because that credibility starts selling itself. And so these strategies Tom's talking about are really powerful. It's something that we personally do. So with the investor mindset, we're doing this every single day, but I love hearing just one more way that we can even get better. And so I hope you guys will apply some of this directly in your business as well.
Tom: [00:24:50] And I'd say on that note too, just on a content marketing standpoint, anything you do that serves that kind of realm, that niche market to it. There's lots of ways to repackage or re purpose that. So that's the other thing it's the cumulative effect of just being a content producer. Or if that's one of your strategies, then that way to repacked or re-purpose, for me, content for that kind of stuff. Again, I'm more of a direct response copywriter, or that's my take on it. I'm not traditionally in that space, but I like the idea of it. And so I do like it when I'm just focused on the results that are being driven. So I only like to produce as much content as is necessary, which ends up being very little, in a lot of ways. So don't be scared that this seems like a ton of work. Most of it is a targeting question. It's Who are the people? Where are they? How do I get in front, what's the thing and then once you put a few of these things together, you can repackage and re purpose these things very easily to play or test out different markets, and to work in kind of different niches, different industries, depending on who you're targeting, because it could be just a face-lift, say of that lead magnet or whatever, I don't need to go off into a tangent there but just to give people some other kind of ideas there not to be overwhelmed by this conversation either.
Steven: [00:25:52] So just to kind of like underline that what you're saying is you've got a lead magnet, you've got a piece of content and it's working, but you want to make it just a little bit better. And so you're kind of changing it changing the title, changing the structure of it, maybe making it shorter or longer, or a checklist or a video series you're trying these different things and you're testing out because you don't necessarily know exactly what works there is proven practices, best practices but what you're doing is you're going through this process of trying things and then you're testing it and you're looking at the results and based on those results you're going to kind of double down so closing out this has been amazing, super powerful stuff I hope all of you listeners go check out Tom, where Tom can people check out more about you or follow some of your work?
Tom: [00:26:40] Yeah, just go to www.tommorkes.com, and you'll find my launch hacks ebook there. You can just go by my podcast if you're more of a listener, and I do have a lot of free resources and materials for people who want to kind of improve their launches sales funnels, a little bit on copywriting. Check it out www.tommorkes.com
Steven: [00:27:03] Highly recommended, great email list, you'll definitely learn some good strategies being able to model masters at their craft on the email side. So Tom, thank you so much, and we look forward to doing this again sometime.
Tom: [00:27:14] Awesome. Thanks, Steve.
If you're an accredited investor and you're interested in learning more about our investment opportunities, the exact types of investments that I personally invest in, then head over to the investormindset.com/invest, or send me an email at Steven@vonfinch.com that's v.o.n.f.i.n.c.h.com. Thanks so much.
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