Finding the Right team can make a world of difference in your passive investment opportunities. Today’s guest, Chris Pomerleau discusses his experiences of getting started in real estate investing, and finding the right team to work with. Sometimes it requires making hard decisions but it all is for the benefit of everyone involved. Steven also shares about a new investment opportunity opening up in Dallas.
Finding the Right team can make a world of difference in your passive investment opportunities. Today’s guest, Chris Pomerleau discusses his experiences of getting started in real estate investing, and finding the right team to work with. Sometimes it requires making hard decisions but it all is for the benefit of everyone involved. Steven also shares about a new investment opportunity opening up in Dallas.
Key Takeaways:
Resources Mentioned
Looking for your next investment opportunity? Then join this passive investment opportunity webinar about the Estrella Apartments located in Dallas, Texas. Register at https://VonFinch.com/offer
About our Guest:
Chris Pomerleau
I began my career with a mission to help people live a better life. I practice family law, and I help many people with marriage dissolution, child custody, or domestic violence cases and more. I’m a determined advocate for all of my clients. My clients are in one of the most difficult situations of their lives, but with empathy and understanding I help them through.
As an equity manager of over $46MM in assets under management, I help others achieve freedom with passive income by investing in real assets without having to invest their time and effort. For them, I create passive investment opportunities so they can pursue their own passions and careers. C-Level executives, busy professionals, business owners, and others are now able to have more freedom and financial security by allocating more into our private investment offerings.
I am committed to being a resource to my clients and investors. I follow the professional motto “We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give,” as said by Winston Churchill.
Steven Pesavento 00:05
This is the Investor Mindset podcast, and I'm Steven Pesavento. For as long as I can remember, I've been obsessed with understanding how we can think better, how we can be better, and how we can do better. In each episode we explore lessons on motivation and mindset for the most successful real estate investors and entrepreneurs in the nation.
Steven Pesavento 00:31
Alright guys, welcome back to the Investor Mindset Show. I'm your host, Stephen Pesavento. And each week, we share mindset tips and real estate investing strategies to help you take your business and your investment portfolio to the next level. And today is no different. We've got a very special guest in the studio, a partner of mine, a great friend, and an amazing operator, Chris Pomerleau of Park Ave Captial. How're you doing today, Chris?
Chris Pomerleau 00:54
Great, Steven, appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.
Steven Pesavento 00:57
excited to have you here. You know, Chris's group has put together hundreds of millions of dollars of multifamily deals, you know, nearly 2000 units in the past few years that they currently own, operate and manage. And they also are experts on the property management side running directly. So today, we're gonna be talking a little bit about the importance of working with the right teams. And we're gonna talk a little bit about the history of putting together the the type of deals that Chris's team has been able to do. So I think it's gonna be really educational, you guys are gonna really like it. So Chris, without further ado, you're ready to dive into things.
Chris Pomerleau 01:36
Let's do it ready.
Steven Pesavento 01:38
So talk to me a little bit about where Park Ave really started. Because I know you're an attorney by trade. You've been working in that space for many, many years before you transitioned into real estate. What was that moment that you decided, okay, I need to change my direction. And I need to go down this path of managing and owning real estate.
Chris Pomerleau 02:02
Yeah, I love that question. Because it's so important. It can, it can resonate with so many different people. 2013 I will not forget that. I guess, or late two and 13, early 2014. I accepted a job at a large firm in town. So I did everything I was supposed to do graduate law school, I got my masters in negotiation, I served in the military, I got out I got a job with a good firm, I was getting paid pretty dang well. But I quickly realized that there's a ceiling and it happened almost immediately. And that was a salaried position. And even if you don't work as a salary as an attorney, you're commissioned, but you can only commission so many cases, there's only so much time of the day. And so although I had done everything I wanted to up to that point it was early in my legal career was in the first year of my legal career, I realized quickly that that it's I'm going to hit a ceiling very quickly. So I had read Rich Dad, five years before that. I read Rich Dad, no eight, and I was in law school. I was in grad school. I was in the military. So it was all three at the same time. I don't know how I fit them all in, I guess. As you know, as entrepreneurs, we're used to working all day every day. But I didn't think at the time I could fit real estate in so as soon as I got out, I knew that it was time to start. So it was a perfect combination of seeing that even though I'm getting paid well as an attorney, and wanting to start real estate was a perfect combination of knowing that I could jump right into it.
Steven Pesavento 03:29
Yeah, it's such a big thing. And what I found from experience personally, as well as interviewing and talking with so many people, is that real estate is full of dreamers. It's one of the things that I love the most this dream that you can live a better life. And real estate is just really a vehicle to be able to do that. And so going from a career where you're making really phenomenal income, you're making really phenomenal income, a lot of our listeners are in the exact same place. They're making great income, they're in a position where maybe they they love what they do, hopefully, that's a real big thing that I really desire for everybody is to have a passion for what you do, but potentially looking to create a little bit more of that freedom, that flexibility, that ability to know that if for some reason you weren't able to go to work, you're covered. Right. But when you're working on an hourly type role or a salary role, you don't have that. And so it makes a lot of sense that you go down that path, but what was it that ended up bringing you down the path of going as an operator because, you know, for so many people passive investing is the absolute best option for them because they don't have the time, effort or energy available to go out and run stuff on their own. Did you even know that that was an option when you got started?
Chris Pomerleau 04:40
No, I didn't. And I think it's important to highlight that. It's not necessarily that it's bad to be in a salaried position. I mean, the goal and when we speak to our investors and what we what we say is the purpose of investing into real estate is you can continue to or start doing what you want to do. So if you want to continue doing your job, or whatever you're doing for the restaurant, that's great. But you have that choice because of the passive income you have as an investor. And so to link to your question is that I had no idea necessarily to become a full time operator. But it was my truly my passion, I actually love operating. And so I lucked out building a passive portfolio in a in an area that I can also be active in as an operator. Whereas many of our investors, they could continue being electricians or doctors or whatever they're doing, but they don't have to unless they love it, because they have the passive income on the side. And that's the big difference.
Steven Pesavento 05:43
Well, I think that's such a big point. Because a lot of people feel like, there is no other option. You know, how many people do I talk to on a weekly, daily or monthly basis, or talk to someone on our team, or investor relations, or anyone that we're working with, that have the belief that the only way to get involved in real estate is to go own a single family home or a duplex, and for a lot of us, that's the way we start. And then you end up realizing that maybe there's a better path. And I love that you end up finding a passion for that. And that's actually how we started working together. You know, I saw that passion, we were introduced by a mutual friend, one of my coaches, one of your coaches, somebody that we both look up to and learn a lot from. But what's cool is that when you find somebody who is very passionate about something, but also has taken that obsession, and gone to another level of being able to build a really phenomenal company. Talk to us a little bit about how big your firm is, at this point, how many deals that you guys have been able to close?
Chris Pomerleau 06:41
Yeah. So my Park Ave Capital, our firm, it consists of me, Collins Schwartz, and Steven Sykes. And we had started, you know, Steven was investing since 2005. I haven't invest. He's 2013. Collins started in 2017. So it's kind of a plethora of, we're all over the board. Stephen was in Portland, I started in Council Bluffs, Iowa, which is a suburb of Omaha, and then calling started in Omaha. And since we all teamed up informally, meaning we didn't register the park name right away, of course. But once we teamed up informally in 2017, since then we've acquired over 1700 units, we will be at 2500, just short of 2500 by January 1. So if you're doing the math, that is around 800 reclosing. Before the end of the year, we've got a lot, we've got a lot going on right now. And we've taken our deals, full cycle 51 times, and that is a combination of either selling on the back end, but ahead of majority end of the actually exactly about 91 92% is a full cycle versus a refinance. And so our goal is to buy and hold. And so to be successful in our business plan, it's to refinance the original investment, receive 100% of our money back as capital but stay in as an owner. And we've done that now 51 times. So that ranges from everywhere from a single family. We just completed an 87 unit, we're getting close on a couple of our 70 Some units, and they were all over the board. 40 minutes, 30 minutes, 20 minutes, 60 minutes. So we've done all of those successfully, as you can imagine some of the larger complexes above 200 that we have, it just takes a little longer.
Steven Pesavento 08:30
Yeah, well, this this is exactly the thing that we look for at Vin Finch, is we're always looking to find local operators, people who are have been executing in the business for a number of years that have that track record of experience that have gone full cycle that have a track record of being able to deliver success, because when we go find a really great deal for our investors, we want to know that the day to day business plan of that opportunity of that investment is going to be handled by people who've been in the trenches and had a lot of experience doing those deals over and over. And so it's it's a non negotiable for us when we're doing opportunities. And we're bringing on partners onto our platform. Because at the end of the day, our job is to go out and find really amazing deals put together incredible sponsor teams. And we've done that in partnership with you. And so if anyone's listening and they're interested in getting involved in any of the stuff that we're going to be talking about here today or getting involved with Park Ave, the best way to do that is to head to VonFinch.com/offer . That's VonFinch.com/offer and we'll include that in the show notes included down below for you guys on YouTube. But by doing so, what we've been able to do is bring incredible deals to the table. I mean, 51 full cycle deals refinancing and the thing that I wrote an underline and really dive into deep with you here, Chris is just the power of this strategy of buying, renovating, refinancing and holding for as long as possible, right We hear a lot about the bur strategy in the small multifamily space the one or two or four unit space. But when you're doing that on a high level, with very large complexes, like the 232 unit that we're purchasing together in, in Dallas, and all of the projects that we're going to be doing moving forward, it ends up creating some infinite returns, in some ways for folks. So let's talk a little bit about what inspired you guys. And why is that really been the go to strategy that we, you know, we're bringing to the table these days?
Chris Pomerleau 10:34
Well, so I started with single family, I know like you did, and we were successful, I was doing everything myself, swinging the hammer, changing the toilets, laying the floor and doing all works. And it took a long time to do that. It was four years and for single family homes later that I realized, it's just not, it's gonna take forever in a day, to accumulate the type of scale I need to get out of my attorney job. So that's when I was 17, we all kind of made it a little more formal. And then, and then start taking on multifamily this burr method. That's exactly I love that explanation, because that's what I'm talking about our investors, that's exactly what I'm saying we're doing, we're instead of a single family home or doing an 80 unit or a 200 unit, and it's really no different and we have garnered so much traction, I think, because a lot of people and there's there's certainly nothing wrong with this, but a lot of people like to sell the apartment or to flip the home. And there's nothing wrong with that. It just doesn't necessarily fit our niche, our business plan of of long term passive income. Once you once you refinance that property, and you receive back all of your capital, and you're into the deal for $0, and you're getting paid monthly or quarterly, it is the largest lightbulb you could possibly imagine, because it's amazing to have into the 1000s of units paying you, when you have $0 into the deal, a lot of sweat equity, a lot of active equity that I put in, but our investors don't have to do that. So
Steven Pesavento 12:01
yeah, I what I really like about this is one of the big things that we focus on, you know, in our firm at Vaughn finches, you know, we're really big believers in diversification, but within the same asset class, right within multifamily within an area of expertise and, and partnering with experts. And by being able to go into something like this, you know, you have an opportunity to be able to refinance, pull all of your money out, and then be able to move forward collecting that cash flow and continuing to retain your equity. Now, there's deals and there's deals that we may bring forward, that you don't have the opportunity to retain your equity. But when that option is available, and you're able to continue to cash flow, that allows you to take that capital and go invest it, again, potentially into a similar deal with a similar type of strategy. But what also is available is to be able to invest that into shorter term strategies, like adventure, of course, one of the things we love doing is these one to three year equity growth deals. Now, there's no cash flow available, but it's quickly in increasing your basis, you know, ideally, doubling your money and in one to three years, or the traditional syndication model, which we often see where you're creating maybe six to 8% cash flow, but you're doubling your money within five to six years. But what I like about this is you have the option and opportunity to take your money, invest it, receive it back, continue to receive that cash flow, continue to grow your basis, but then invest that money into other opportunities, or live off of it, if that's what's gonna be best for you.
Chris Pomerleau 13:38
Right now, that's great. That's it. I mean, and that's what we're seeing from so many people. And that's what I was saying earlier, why we've gotten so much traction, I've gotten so many phone calls from people saying, I really want to own real estate, to diversity point. And we're kind of doing the same thing. We're selling a lot of our 20 to 30 units stuff because it's a hot market right now. We've taken care of it, we've obviously operated it correctly. And so we're able to make quite a decent amount on that profit. But our goal isn't to then go on and buy a boat or anything. It's to just roll that profit into something larger and scalable and something that we can hold indefinitely for passive income. So there's certainly ways to diversify. There's there's enough ways to crack the egg, I think they say,
Steven Pesavento 14:19
yeah, so talk to us a little bit about when you're purchasing a property like this, and you're executing that business plan. What is important as an operator to be looking at when it comes to asset management and property management and talk to us a little bit about the difference between the two? Because I think there's a lot of listeners who are curious, maybe they don't really understand what is someone do on asset management, what is the property management, what's the difference? And then what should we be looking for for all those advanced listeners?
Chris Pomerleau 14:49
Yeah, that's great, because there's there's a distinct difference, and it's a question we get a lot. Luckily for us, we own our own property management company. here in Omaha, we manage right around 700 units. And so we certainly understand what's needed at the property management level. But that includes sending out h back people to fix the air conditioning that includes fixing a leaky faucet that includes leasing a vacant unit, the property management is really boots on ground literally on site often, and in really carrying forward the business plan. But the person who manages the entire business plan is that asset manager. And so luckily for us, we act as the property manager and the asset manager on our own property here in Omaha. But when it comes to these outside states, we're in seven states now. And so we're able because of our background and property management, we know what to expect out of the property manager. So we're now managing the property manager, we're on weekly phone calls, speaking through email, if not every day, every other day, figuring out what's going on with the property. And we as asset managers are making sure that the property managers are moving forward and carrying out our business plan. And so it is different because the property manager has a job to do, obviously, but it's really to take care of the property and to implement the business plan of the owner. And if we're able to do that, by managing the property manager, that's why it's so important in our role as the asset manager. And I hope I kind of drew that distinction, clearly.
Steven Pesavento 16:23
Yeah, I think so. And to kind of summarize that thought, and that point is really the asset managers job is to oversee all of the details related to the execution of that business plan, the execution of what is happening from that team, day to day, you could think of them as the CEO, or you could think of them as a manager lower level that is managing those local teams, right, they need to be someone needs to have oversight on what that property manager is doing on behalf of all of the investors that are working with us. And that's really kind of our job, you know, at the end of the day, we go out and find really great opportunities. And then in order to make sure that great opportunity that we're buying at a great price and a great basis turns into profit for us and for the investors, right, investors typically receive 60 to 80% of the profit. And we're only getting paid based on the success of that deal. So in order for that to end up leading to great returns for investors, somebody needs to be managing and earning their keep on what's happening day to day. And that's really why it's so important to have an experienced operator like yourself, kind of at the helm, making sure that everything's happening as it should.
Chris Pomerleau 17:42
Yeah, that's that's very well said, I think that it's important to to, to state that not only does it help that we have the property management background with the ownership we have in our own company, but also the experience now and there's nothing wrong with lacking a little bit of experience. Obviously, when we started, we didn't have experience, but knowing what to expect out of seven different states and property management companies and our own property management company and, and understanding each individual's roles is huge.
Steven Pesavento 18:11
Yeah, that's, that's really, that's really big. So, you know, buying 1700 units, almost 2000 Plus, you know, within a month or two of this, the recording of this year in 2021. Talk to me a little bit about what is one of the biggest challenges that you guys faced, one of the things that maybe happened that was unexpected when operating one of these small or large properties, and kind of talk to us a little bit, you know, about how you guys handle that.
Chris Pomerleau 18:41
So the I'd say one of the bigger challenges, which is obviously understandable is the trust and the relationship in the that we have with our external or our third party property management companies. I mean, as you know, they'll make or break your entire deal. Now, ultimately, it falls on us as the asset managers and the sponsors and the people driving the bus of the investment. But it that has that has been the biggest learning curve, if you will, of our investments. To give you an example we we did by I won't name names or even locations necessarily, but we had a property manager company that looked great on paper, we interviewed them, we had great conversations, their knowledge base seemed great. We even talked to a few references. And then we learned about six months after closing on a deal that a lot of that was inflated. A lot of that was unfortunately not true. And so you know, the hard part for us is explained to the investors why certain investment isn't necessarily where it's at right this moment. Luckily we caught it in the first four to six months but and then the transition and the first four six months to a brand new property management on a big deal. And that you know, you asked me about an example That's certainly not a position that we want to be in. By the way, we need to put our big boy pants on and explain to investors why this is going on, we had kind of built into the entire projection a first year, that would not be that successful successful, certainly as the projection is concerned, but not like extremely large return. Because oftentimes, whether there's a great property management company or not, you're taking over a property that's going to see a little more vacancy, a little more work needed of that first couple years first year, because of the meat left on the bone, if you will. But it wasn't what to where we wanted it to be. And having that conversation, the investors and let them know, we're taking a change the direction hiring new property manager company, that just happened four or five months ago. And they were able to raise the occupancy within four or five months from the 70s, into the 90s. Now we expected 70s, we expected an average first year of in the 80s, because of the large the amount of work that's on the property. So we always expected in the 80s, on an average. So we're are the fact that we're already in the 90s, we're ahead of it. But our first six months, we were behind it. And so, you know, you asked about an example of where it didn't necessarily go away, it's gonna end up exactly where we want to have not better. But those are the things you got to kind of roll with. And I think it helps that we have the background and property management to know what to expect and kind of make that quick transition.
Steven Pesavento 21:17
And had you not made that change from an asset management level perspective, if you've not had that experience, to know that you need to make that change being a pretty rough position for the investors long term, you've got to make that decision quickly. We got to give them enough run time to see if they're going to actually do what they say they're going to do. But at the end of the day, you know, you've got to make that tough call.
Chris Pomerleau 21:40
Right? Right. It was the best call we could have made so.
Steven Pesavento 21:43
So one of the things that I really appreciate about your group is that you've had experience working not only in different states, but different class levels of property, A, B, C, and even D class even though you know, Von Finch, we stay away from D for some different reasons. But there's some opportunity that can be huge when you're working with a really good operator. So talk to us a little bit about how you've gone through that progression of the different types of properties that you take down and where you're doing it.
Chris Pomerleau 22:14
I mean, we're the same, right? We're not really interested in D class properties. We have purchased them before. And we've been relatively successful, but those mainly beginning of our career. And it's also because we didn't know we didn't know now I think that's the same thing as saying that we got our hands dirty, you know, the fact that I was working on single family homes myself every weekend and some weeknights, let me appreciate what to expect out of somebody who's doing that. And same can be said about if you can turn successfully a D class into a mid to high C, your your ability to take a high B into an A is much easier. But certainly you you've dealt with a number of situations. So and that's what I like about what we've done, right seven different states, all different class levels. It just helps us become better when it's we're more well rounded. And we know what to expect from different from from different asset classes.
Steven Pesavento 23:06
Yeah, I think one of the things that's interesting is what you hear in this industry is a lot of people start out working in that C class and that low B, that is where a lot of folks start, because that's where you have access to buy those deals, they're less appealing. But there's usually a lot more meat on the bone, there's a lot more opportunity to create value, if you are very hands on if you have the ability to execute very well. So it really goes to show and it goes to say a lot about your guys's experience in doing that and having success with it. But it's easier to take something from a B to an A, right, because you're dealing with a tenant class that one wants to pay their bills. And two, that is just a little bit easier of a building newer of a building, typically to work with. So I can definitely understand why there's been that transition. And that actually kind of really leads to the opportunity that we're working on together. And we'll continue to work on. But you specifically chose Dallas for a reason. So talk to us a little bit about what you liked about the the Dallas market about the Texas market and about why enter that area for this specific strategy that that we've been executing together?
Chris Pomerleau 24:22
Yeah, there's no question me, it seems that you could be a new investor and understand that Dallas is just booming. It's a place we were we wanted to invest for a while. But to be honest, from up in Omaha, the first couple years of our of our of our history is that we weren't getting as much traction or connection with agents down there. And that's understandably so we had no presence in the market. We hadn't necessarily proven ourselves there. And we didn't have the number account or the experience to do that now is the opportunity where we're starting to get approached by agents down there because they trust us and we have a track record. And we've been successful. So it's great to be a part of that Dallas boom. because at first it was hard to break into, because as you would imagine everyone in the countries after it, this is perfect. First off, we already own something down there, we own a 235 unit right there in Fort Worth. And they're that area where a stray is located, is the path of progression. It's, it's, it checks the box of everything you would want in an investment. You know, there are areas in a number of cities that we invest in. But certainly just think about Omaha, there are some very, very up and coming places that are very polished that I wish I could have invested, there are five, six years ago, if I would have known what I know now I would have invested five or six years go astray is that five or six years ago, a stray is the where everything is moving. I mean, there's a lot of excitement built around this investment, because there's just so much meat on the bone, there's a lot of opportunity to raise rents, it's being mismanaged, which is usually the number one credential, we look for credentials, certainly, it's the item we look for, because that that includes a laundry list of ways we can improve the property, raised income, lowered expenses, just actual attention on the property. And so this could not be a better situation, it's in a city that's booming. It's in the path of progress in that city. And there's so much meat on the bone to raise the income and lower the expenses that we'll be able to turn a 232 unit in Australia, as quickly as we're doing some of our 40 or 60 units in other cities.
Steven Pesavento 26:32
Yeah, and that's what I think is so great about working with really, really experienced people is that when you look at the information, you just shared path of progress, right, you're looking at investing in an area specifically that has long term upside. And when you're due, and you when you're investing in a long term opportunity, instead of something that's one or two or three years, you've got an opportunity to take that benefit of what kind of changes naturally happening in the area, and put that into returns for investors. But of course, to be clear, none of that upside is written into the pro forma, none of that upside is required in order for the deal to go well, or for the deal to be able to hit what we project for our investors and our partners. And that's what is so key is that when you look at a deal, and the returns are already strong, but when you actually dive into the information and the philosophy behind it, it's extremely conservative, that means that one, if things go wrong in the market, that everything's gonna be fine. And to that there's enough padding built in to at least be able to hit projections, but most importantly, to be able to protect that principle. And so when you guys are going forward, and you're looking at opportunities, how what is your philosophy, when it comes to underwriting and putting out projections to investors.
Chris Pomerleau 28:00
There's a mentor, a friend of mine that has a phrase, if it doesn't cash flow, let the grass grow. Meaning if there's a cash flow right now, leave it alone. And that's the way we operate on everything. We do have a couple that we've taken a little JV things on the side where we know the heavy lift right up front, but for the most part, especially in a deal like this in Australia, we're not going to buy something unless it makes sense right now. And then certainly I love that you have the conservatives in there, we're not hoping for some type of 9% income growth that's organic to only that asset. I mean, we're expecting to bring the rents just to a market as right now. And do that through just a better attention to the property and not count on something that's abnormal. The reason that's beneficial is that you surround yourself with people who haven't been investing for even 20 years. And they'll tell you back in, oh 809, you had people investing for what they maybe could be worth in four years having no idea what it's worth right now. And that's extremely dangerous. So the fact that our pro forma for Australia works right now, if that's everything about our business model, and takes nothing into consideration about the path of progress is huge for us.
Steven Pesavento 29:14
Yeah, and so this is I hope that all the listeners are able to really kind of soak in this idea, this vision, this model of what a refi hold and strategy can look like as a part of your portfolio as a passive investor or for those active operators. Are those up and coming operators are listening to me to be inspired to look at things from a longer term perspective. It's more secure when you have long term debt in place. It's more secure when you don't have to decide when you're going to sell. That doesn't mean that doing short term deals isn't phenomenal. I love them, right? We flipped over 200 houses. We do multiple multifamily deals that have a short term window that we're able to create phenomenal returns but when you pay that with long term holds with a refi component connected to it, it can be extremely, extremely powerful. So I just want to remind everybody who's been listening, if you guys like what you hear, you know, definitely hit that subscribe button. But if you're interested in getting involved with Von Finch, and the kind of opportunities that we have, including the kinds of opportunities that we partner with phenomenal operators like Chris, than I encourage you to head over to VonFinch.com/offer, and you'll be able to see directly what is that current available opportunity for you to get involved, if you're listening. And the deal that we're talking about, or that we've mentioned is available, you'll be able to get some more information about what that would look like, as well. So Chris, as we get ready to wrap up, what would be the final advice? Or what would be the recommendation you'd share with investors who are interested in beginning to start investing in deals where they can have their cash back at some point and then continue to hold for cash flow? What do you recommend they look for? And, and how would you like to close out today's interview,
Chris Pomerleau 31:08
I think obviously, it's important to make sure you're comfortable with the sponsor, you know, your team, Steven, my team, make sure that you're, you're the trust there, make sure the business plan matches, you know, like you said, it's nice to have a little diversification, you can flip an apartment for four years, you can also buy and hold. And I think the reason that's what I would highlight to people who are interested in introducing the buy and hold is the ability to build long term wealth, that passive cash flow is not going away. And once you're done flipping apartments or homes, you're not making money anymore. Again, we have done it and we've rolled that profit into long term holds. So we've certainly sold things. But think about the ability to continue to recycle your money on passive assets, passive income assets that you can then stack and, and build that monthly income to a level where you can do whatever you want. Stay in your job, get a new job, quit your job. The passive income extremely powerful, and I think that it's important for people to introduce into their portfolio.
Steven Pesavento 32:16
Well, the ability to create passive income or freedom, flexibility to set your life up to have a lot more fun is what we're all about here at the Investor Mindset and Von Finch. So thanks you guys so much for listening. It was a pleasure having you on Chris and I hope you guys will take action on some of this information. Think to yourself, well, how can I take this approach and start adding it to my portfolio? How can I start using this strategy to start creating more of that freedom that we've been talking about it so have a beautiful day you guys and we'll see you on the next episode.
Steven Pesavento 32:53
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