So you want to start in real estate but don't know where to begin? Steven is joined by Reed Goossens, a real estate entrepreneur from Australia, and they dive into how you can get started in building a prolific business from scratch.
So you want to start in real estate but don't know where to begin? Steven is joined by Reed Goossens, a real estate entrepreneur from Australia, and they dive into how you can get started in building a prolific business from scratch.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Abut the Guest:
One of the biggest benefits of investing is commercial multifamily is economies of scale. However, this can be very tough if you don't have the right people, processes and systems in place though. We talk about this and how Reed came from Australia as an expat and grew a successful real estate business from scratch here in the US. For anyone wanting to start a real estate business this episode is a must for you.
In 2012, Reed quit his job in Australia and moved halfway across the globe to the US to change his life, and to chase a dream. With limited funds, no investing experience, and no credit, Reed went from purchasing a small duplex to growing his own real estate investing firm, Wildhorn Capital. Reed now syndicates large multi-million dollar deals across the US. He has also achieved financial freedom, and has taken control of life.
Reed is also the host of the successful podcast, Investing in the U.S., wherein he invites other distinguished real estate investors and entrepreneurs to speak with him about their success and help guide other investors who want to successfully invest in the U.S.! Reed is also a best-selling author with two books now on Amazon: Investing in the US – The Ultimate Guide to US Real Estate, & 10,000 Miles to the American Dream.
Steven Pesavento 00:00
One of the biggest benefits of investing in commercial multifamily is economies of scale. But scaling as multifamily operator can be tough if you don't have the right processes and systems in place. We talked about that and more with today's guest, Reed Goossens, who's scaled to over 2400 units in just a few years. Absolutely incredible multifamily operator, you're not gonna want to miss it.
Steven Pesavento 00:26
This is the Investor Mindset podcast. And I'm Steven Pesavento. For as long as I can remember, I've been obsessed with understanding how we can think better, how we can be better, and how we can do better. And each episode we explore lessons on motivation and mindset for the most successful real estate investors and entrepreneurs in the nation.
Steven Pesavento 00:48
Welcome back to the Investor Mindset podcast. I'm your host, Steven Pesavento. And today I've got a very special guest Reed Goossens is in the studio. How you doing today, Reed?
Reed Goossens 00:56
Goodday Mate, thanks for having me.
Steven Pesavento 00:58
Well, I'm excited to have you become good friends with the end, for those of you who don't know, reduces the real estate entrepreneur and managing partner of wild horn capital. He's moved to the United States from native Australia back in 2012. And since then, he's been able to grow a portfolio of over 2400 units, over $320 million of assets under management, which his company Wildhorn directly controls. And he's also the host of the investing in the US podcast, and the author of two books, including his most recent 10,000 miles the American dream, our story of financial freedom. And so really excited to talk with you read because of course, you've built a very successful scaled multifamily operation, you know, one that's built on proven processes and systems. And it's really impressive, you're one of the people I think, is best positioned to scale through whatever that next cycle looks like. So I really want to dive in today into kind of uncovering this belief that a lot of new operators have, that they think they can't succeed for X reason, and whatever that reason is, everyone's got one. And they end up holding themselves back from succeeding because of that belief. So what I'm curious about, tell me a little bit about how you overcame some of those fears and those beliefs as an immigrant to the United States and have since scaled to 2400 units.
Reed Goossens 02:19
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is going what you just said is move my my life halfway across the world was such a big move in itself that anything beyond that, it seems small, right? Like when you just you say screw it, I had a very well paying engineering job in Australia, before I moved here, my backgrounds in structural engineering, and I just said, you know, throwing a bit of caution to the wind, and Steve, I didn't have a dream to be this multifamily operator. 10, eight years ago, in a move here, it was more just pushing the boundaries of what is comfortable. And that started with literally just like, hey, I want to live in New York City, I just want to do it for a period of time. I don't know what's going to happen. I may move back to Australia, but also maybe some other doors might open which is clearly has happened and be able to walk through those doors, I think a lot of people get so caught up with the the negativity around failure, right? Like, if I don't, if I try this thing, and I could fail, well, then I'm not going to try it at all. And for me, it's about you know, setting yourself up so you don't have regret in life. And then for me, when I first moved United States, it was just all about, I don't want to wake up when I'm 70 years of age going geez, I wish I moved to America back in 2012 and lived in New York City for a period of time. And through that doors start to open when you start to push your boundaries when you start to learn to take a bet on yourself. Because the only person you can really take a bet on is yourself. And if you're not going to take a bet on yourself, you're not going to bet on anyone. And just getting a little bit more comfortable with not having all the answers of what on the other side of that door might look like what that opportunity may look like. And just letting go of that. It's easier said than done. But it is around mindset. It is around understanding how to push your boundaries it is it around being uncomfortable, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, right? All those sort of cliche things that we say on these podcasts. And Tony Robbins has always to say but for me, it was really about coming to America and living life on my terms and not having any regret when I'm you know, when I'm in my older age of 70 of it and looking back at my life and going Jesus, I lived a good life.
Steven Pesavento 04:16
Yeah, well, I think that's such a big point here because it's so easy for us to get caught up in that feeling of well, what what happens if I fail? What's the negative income or outcome going to be? And how is that going to hurt my income? And when you start focusing on that you start creating a bunch of reasons why not to take action. So you know, you've moved here from Australia, obviously, if you can build something without having any network. I think it's true to say that anybody no matter where you are in the country, no matter what market you're in, that you can build relationships and be able to scale. What do you do to start overcoming some of those fears? I mean, obviously, you made the move, that was a big step. And once you made that move, talk to me a little bit about the momentum that ended up coming from it.
Reed Goossens 04:58
Well so you The thing was trying to put one step in front of the one foot in front of the other, which was, let's get a job. I needed a job to stay here. So literally hit the pavement with my CV in hand, I want one thing I realized, like, I just wasn't going to be sending my CV out online to the big dark web because I had, you know, as soon as someone a recruiter looked at it, like, Oh, he's from Australia, Visa No, out next. So I literally just did guerilla marketing, I literally walked into engineering firms until someone said, Yes. And so it was all these nose. No, no, no, no, no. And that's one for every No, you get one step step closer to a yes. And that was the start. Once I did that, first thing, I got a job Great. Now got that got got a visa. Great. All right. Next thing, let's talk about, you know, moving to, you know, educating myself on the American way of understanding real estate before moving to the US even I was already had been bitten by the real estate bug. And so when I moved here, the plethora of opportunities, and particularly living in New York City, you know, the Big Apple, when I realized there was these things called Rheas, the real estate investment associations, that was huge, like, I don't exist in Australia, like we didn't have this sort of tapestry of each MSA around the country, having their own Ria, and then going and paying 30 bucks at the door to, you know, to not be surrounded by the people who are doing exactly what you want to do, but also learn really quickly about what you should do what you shouldn't do. And so investing in my education, first and foremost, was really important on the front end, but also, the ability to realize what I didn't have in Australia, and what Americans do have here at their fingertips. And so the excuse of all that, you know, I can't, you know, get educated or I can't find the time to go to meetups, or I can't find the time to read books, or whatever that might be, that was all out the window. Because where I come from, there was so little of that coming and seeing it, you know, again, at my fingertips was just hugely overwhelming. And I took that ball and ran with it. So that was sort of the start of, you know, getting putting one foot in front of the other to then start paving a way or pathway forward towards, quote, unquote, success.
Steven Pesavento 07:04
Yeah, it's having that perspective that really made you appreciate what opportunities are afforded to us living in the United States, investing in the United States. And it's easy to take that for granted, right, that we often hear this story about immigrants who make the trek to the US, and then they find success. And I think one of the reasons why is because they took action in order to get here. And they have to keep taking action in order to move forward. And I thought there was something really, really cool, just because I know you I want to point it out. If you guys heard there, what Reed did was he figured out step by step, what actions and steps he needed to take in order to succeed at getting this first job to stay in the US. And that's exactly what you have to do. If you're going to be investing in any type of real estate or business, you have to figure out what is that step by step. And so, you know, read How did you figure out when it came to going in and becoming an operator? How did you figure out what that step by step is?
Reed Goossens 07:59
Well, very good question. And I think a lot of people get caught up and probably a lot of the listeners on this show of what you want to be, you know, when you start down this road of real estate, and for me, I always knew I wanted to be an operator, I always knew I needed to be the owner. And I needed to, you know, control the deal. I'd there's something about that. I don't know what it is, but I needed to control the deal. So for those people listening, you may not necessarily be in their boat. And there's other ways you can get involved. But for those people who want to control the deal, I have to look at my resources and say, Okay, what do I got available to me, right, and being fresh off the boat back in 2012, I saved a bit of money because I've been working in a corporate world for a couple of years, I think I'd say $40,000 saved. And I quickly realized these cheap properties in upstate New York, which I could get on a Greyhound bus to and travel up there on a Saturday, we were good would get me going. And that was you know, I took a lot of inspiration and Rich Dad Poor Dad, and I needed to get that first deal done and start developing cash flow right I need to start supplementing my income otherwise I'll never be able to escape the rat race. And for me, it was like well, what can I afford? Or like no one's lending to me. And by gosh, this is really cheap properties in upstate New York and Syracuse and again coming from Australia that international perspective I had no idea you could buy a place for $30,000 And so that to me was like okay, next step okay, let's find a market that I can go to I can travel to pretty quickly or not, you know relatively quick they didn't have a car at that point but was getting on the Greyhound bus going up there talking some brokers was able to do it in a day on a Saturday and again, taking action learning some markets and then after a period about six months, you know, getting comfortable enough to pull the trigger you know, and you know, buy my first deal and that first deal my second year on that secondly led to my third deal. And so all it's all about that step by step momentum building, pushing the boundaries but also really taking action each and mindful action. It's not just randomly shooting spraying bullets, you know, spraying you know, ideas out and all mica after that one of Mike after this one but it's actually being very methodical about okay, what's the process to get to that first deal? Okay, well, I need to develop Find a market, right? I need to find a broker in that market, I need to understand the market ins and outs and become comfortable enough to be able to pull the trigger what is the deal look like if a deal comes across my table, right getting get boots on the ground and start walking those markets even it was, you know, for me, it was just I just did a four hour radius around New York City, because that's where I was living at the time. And that was affordable. So for any show for people who like don't live in affordable city, if you draw a four hour radius around your city, I'm sure you'll find affordable places to go, which you can drive to. So for me, it was again, it was just backing into what I could and couldn't do, and the things I could do, which was in my control, go out and try and take a lot of action to get to that point of doing okay, what's that first deal look like? And knowing that I wanted to be an operator like because for me, Stephen, I vividly remember going to the readers go into the pitches in the seminars, and I could have spent more and more money on more seminars, more education, but I got to the point where it's like, I'm not going to get to deal number 10 Without doing deal number one, and I'm willing to take the risk of my own money. Again, he talks about a door opening, I'm willing to take the risk because it's my money. And I can control that, right. And I can control the risk. And if even if it went to hell and high, it was a lightning in a lunch basket, it was my money, right? I was willing to risk it knowing that I wasn't going to lose my shirt over it because I done my due diligence correctly. That was enough for me to again, open that door and step through it and get to deal number two.
Steven Pesavento 11:26
Yeah. And so you, you win and you got yourself educated, and you started learning these things. But you made sure that you actually went to that next step of actually applying the lessons learned so that you can iterate so you can continue the process of applying those learnings can continue to grow. So you know, obviously fast forward, now you have 2400 units of multifamily that you guys control, you've got a very, very successful business. And you've worked with operators, you know, from all levels from people who are just beginning to people are looking to scale past 1000 units and beyond what prevents most operators from scaling successfully.
Reed Goossens 12:02
I think it's around the team that you surround yourself with. So the real, you know, value of my success was two things. One, I got a mentor early on. So I end up selling a couple of properties in upstate New York to get to release some cash to invest in the business and invest in a brand that was myself read Goossens, because that's what people are going to invest in first and foremost, they're not going to necessarily invest in the deal, they're gonna invest in you as a human, right. And so if you can't build that trust or build that brand around who you are and your identity, then you're not gonna be able to ask them at any point in time saying, Hey, I've got this really great deal you should invest with me. So I spent a lot of time early in the early days, building that brand, building that sort of trust and transparency and trying to compress my story in my journey into a very short period of time. And I use mediums like podcasting, and books and all that sort of stuff, to get that message across. And using that story, because I had an interesting story that people may find that interesting, and then thus, want to learn more from me, right. And I was able to build my investor networks, that's one side of the coin. The other side of the coin was that I went and got a mentor and a mentor who I aspired to be. And this is really important, because you do surround yourself with people who if you if you surround yourself with people you aspire to be, you will become the average. And it again, it sounds cliche, but it is true. And being able to, again, use money that I earned from a deal, or my first couple of deals, and go and then invested in myself, it wasn't anything physical, it wasn't a physical asset. It was investing in my education. And again, it was me taking a bet on myself saying, Hey, I'm going to take myself seriously, you need to go out and get a mentor, because you've been going for sort of three or four years learning by yourself. And I was starting to get to the end of my tether, I knew I needed to uplevel my game, and break the sort of ceiling that I was getting to and that was through mental. Then the third thing I did, which was in a working summarize this in a little bit, was I actually had a skill set that if I had to be in corporate America for a period of time, I decided, okay, I'm a structural engineer, how can I go and work for a developer and learn in the B get paid a corporate, well, well paid corporate geek, but then continue to be surrounded by real estate 24/7. So my day job and and my side hustle, and you know, grow my beard grow my quote unquote, brand at the same time. So all those three things happened around the same time in about 2014. And that was a really, again, incredible launching pad to where I am today.
Steven Pesavento 14:27
I like that. I like that because it's a different perspective, right? I I'm a I'm a boat burner. When I go and do something I have to go all in, I have a very difficult time doing more than three things at once. Very simple. I got to be all in 100%. So when I got into real estate, and I burned the boats, I fired all my clients, I went 100% and I had no other way to make money other than succeeding and it took a long time and a lot of stress and I wouldn't recommend it to everybody. But what I like about what you're saying here is that you figured out a path that didn't have to be immediate. You looked at well, how do I Build something long term. And these are the steps in order for me to get there. Sometimes people get too impatient that they want to quit their job today, but they're making 100 $200,000 a year. It's like, Well, wait, let's just pause a second, you're making really great income, let's figure out how we can pivot that income into something that's going to grow you long term in this space. And that's one of the reasons I think you've had so much success is that you're very, very patient from the beginning.
Reed Goossens 15:26
Yeah, and that's you hit the nail on the head, we were always like, rewind when I first moved to the United States, or when I first picked up Rich Dad, Poor Dad back in 2010. Like, I was like, I want to have to have this happen tomorrow, right? We all want that. And it takes a long time. And there's been a lot of ups and downs along this journey. So please, for those people listening out there, it's not a overnight success. It's I've been at this for over a decade, and I'll continue to grow and to build my business over the next 234 decades, because I love what I do. But what in the beginning you have to train yourself to be is persistent, and is patient. Patience is really, really important in this game, because I see so many people failing, when they go out there. And they you know, they don't have the right mindset on the front end, right? They think I'm gonna get this done in, I'm gonna be financially free in a year. And there's some freaks out there you see on bigger pockets, and all the blogs that can do it. And I applaud them well done. But I wasn't one of those people. And probably the majority of people listening to this podcast are not those those freaks. So how do you use the tools that you have ie day job, keeping the roof over your head, keeping bills paid, but continued to move towards the needle towards your ultimate goals. And if you think it's going to take a year or two years, well, then think, again, you know, this is you're laying the foundation for life changing, you know, set yourself up for financial freedom and retirement, that's going to take 567 1015 20 years, whatever it takes, that's okay. But you have to have the right mindset on the front end, because then you when it gets hard, and it will get hard, when it gets tough when it gets to the bottom of the barrel, you will know that, hey, I'm not going to give up because I knew this was going to take 710 11 years, 12 years, 50 Whatever it is, and you have the right mindset on the front end, rather than me like I'm going to get it done in six months, or six months, why haven't I got financial freedom, I quit, you know, it's just people just give up too easily then, and having persistence and having grit. And knowing that it will take a period of time is the most important thing to lay a good foundation as you go off to down this journey, because it is an incredible journey.
Steven Pesavento 17:26
Well, it's like when you're realistic about how long it might take and what you're going to take away in the process, then you don't get so down on yourself that you haven't made those strides. Because when you think okay, well, I'm gonna make $10 million a year multifamily business, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna create these amazing operations are I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. And then it doesn't happen, you feel like giving up. But if you're realistic about it, and you figure out what some of those milestones are, because you've worked with mentors who've been down the path before, you know, realistically, well, I'm on the right path, I'm making progress. And that's really what we need to feel, we need to find a way that we can feel the progress that we're that we're experiencing, day in and day out, so that we can, you know, keep motivated, because you got to keep being pulled in that direction. Otherwise, that pushing, you're gonna end up running out of steam quite a bit. So what I'm really curious about here is, you know, we talked about what prevents some people from scaling, obviously, it's having unrealistic expectations, not having mentorship, not having the right kind of connections, what are some of the biggest challenges that you see operators experience when they're getting started? And how have you coached or worked with other people to kind of get over some of those?
Reed Goossens 18:35
I think the big thing is partnerships, you know, like I've had failed partnerships in the past, through just before I got into the multi, the large multifamily space, and understanding that you don't have to have all the answers. So you might be really good at capitalizing or might be really good at underwriting operations, you might be really good at one element of the business, you can go out, this is a big enough partner split around, you can go out and get other partners to go and do bigger, larger deals. And it might not necessarily be 100 units tomorrow, but it might be you've gone from 10 to a 50 unit deal, right? And that might that's going to take more equity, there might take a little bit more advanced underwriting, it might take a little bit more better broker relationships to find those types of deals. So all those little elements, you don't have to put it all on yourself and say, I've got to figure this out myself. It's a bit insane in saying that you're trying to find the right partners and understanding those right partners come through being out in the street, you know, talking to brokers, talking other people doing it, talking to mentors, and just, you know, going through those conversations consistently to say, to find someone who would then be like, Okay, I'm interested in what you have to do, and maybe we can partner up and maybe we have complementary skill sets in order to, you know, get this done or get this first big deal done. I think that's the key because so many people want to be the deal fine or be the capital raiser, be the operator be all these things and it's just, it's just sometimes too much and then Throw into that keeping your day job thrown into that having a life thrown into that having relationships with the kids or your family keeping food on the table, it just becomes over bloody whelming. Right. So having fire in punishment in itself can be very challenging, and you got to find the right partnership, but it's about starting with, okay, I can understand that I don't need to take on everything. And then I have a skill set that can be complementary to maybe someone else who struggled in the department that I'm really, really good at.
Steven Pesavento 20:26
And how do you figure out, you know, how does somebody go about figuring out what is that skill set? What is their unique ability?
Reed Goossens 20:32
Yeah, well, I think you got to, you got to sit down with a pen and paper, write it down, you know, for me, I happened to have have a unique ability that I was very mathematically brained orientated, you know, I was a structural engineer, I was able to pivot to be valuable to develop a here in LA to continue to have the food on the table and a roof over my head as I was learning. But that also then taught me different skill sets of, you know, institutional project management, how to underwrite deals better, you know, from an institutional grade point of view, how to run deals in from, from a operations point of view, how to build stuff, you know, understand the how things are put together, that then you again, I'm using every single opportunity in life to take away some some very valuable lessons to then use them for another project, or bring them bring that skillset to another partnership. So for me, it will happen to be that I was very new that I was very mathematically orientated, I knew how to underwrite deals, I knew how to manage large scale projects, and was also very comfortable with managing large sums of money, you know, being being responsible for building a lot of high end multifamily here in Los Angeles for that original developer. So having a lot of that responsibility, put me in a very good stead to go out and do it on my own. But then I needed to find someone who had a complementary skill set to me, because what I was lacking was maybe some of the equity, or some of the broker relationships in markets that I'm active in, and that there needed to find you to fill that that void. And that's where I found my business partner, Andrew.
Steven Pesavento 22:01
Yeah, I think that is, it's really, really solid advice. And, and so over that time, now, you've built this business, you know, when people hear 2400 units, sometimes people are listening to folks who don't really manage or operate those, or maybe they've got like, 1% of that. And I know, that's not the case of you guys, you guys are controlling and managing all 2400 of those units. Talk to me a little bit about the ins and outs of what's going on on the operation side of a business that's that big as you're prepping to scale even larger.
Reed Goossens 22:31
Yeah, well, we're at a very interesting inflection point in the business today. And I can be vulnerable with you about exactly how we built it, it's really been Andrew and I, for the last five, six years building it, you know, I've been the operations, he has been the equity, he sort of shakes the tree, and I determined to make lemonade or lemon juice out of it. And that's been really good. But as we've come to both of us feeling very stretched with so many deals, we've got nine deals, you know, there's just a lot of investors to answer. We've had to bring on executive assistants, and we've got to bring on new business partners to go and help relieve the pressure in terms of management in terms of, you know, not necessarily firing myself, but also understanding what's my highest and best use in the business today, it was different than what it was three or four years ago. So overall, it's understanding what that business is or what that highest and best use is. And then backing into knowing that that if you go and invest in employees and invest in different systems that will help you scale from 2400 units, I'll help us go from 25 minutes us to maybe 5000 or 6000 units, which we definitely have a aspiration to go do.
Steven Pesavento 23:39
Yeah, that makes sense. And you get to this point your business where no longer can you continue to be the only one operating and doing the day to day. But sometimes people when they're only at 100 units or 500 units, they think, hey, I want to find a way for me not to have to do any of the work. But the end of the day, you really do as an operator need to put in the work, you need to figure out well, where is your best skill set? And how are you going to go and execute on a day to day basis, so that you can, you know, really deliver for your investors.
Reed Goossens 24:08
And that's up until this point, we've been lean for a reason, right? You'd be lean to keep so you don't have a lot of overhead, you don't get too far over your skis. I see a lot of other startup businesses, in any type of business, maybe bring on too many employees too quickly. We don't have the revenue to pay for that. Right. And so we have to individually we have to roll up our sleeves and do more work. But that's because we want to keep it lean in and be sustainable and growth not as it not not get too far out there and have a lot of overhead and burden because it's really important to have controlled growth because if you don't have controlled growth, you come into other issues of starting businesses like you know, payroll and benefits and all that sort of stuff. We've just hired our first full time employee as of today, Monday as of this recording. So, you know, up until then, we've been using 1099 analysts we've been using 1099 executive assistants virtual assistants, we saw Third Party property manage. So all these things help us be more effective in the way in which we control that the portfolio. But as we get to this point, we've now realized we've also become a bit of a bottleneck. And thus we need to let go of some of that control and bring some people in underneath us. So we can go off and do our highest and best use and double that portfolio, which is, which is the goal.
Steven Pesavento 25:22
Yeah. And I, what I really appreciate learning with you and from you is that you guys are in the trenches right now going through those scaling pains, you're not a company, that's a billion dollars. And you you're well past that point, what I've noticed is that I can relate a lot to the day to day challenges that you're dealing with, because you're only three 410 steps ahead of me, I can still see you while you're on the path, but you're able to share some experience that's really relevant today, because the market is changing so quickly that, that it's so important to have somebody like that in your, in your space to be able to learn from so I definitely appreciate that. I want to thank you here live on the air for that. But what I'm curious, you come from a construction background, when it comes to managing these types of properties. How has that played in and how have you been able to leverage that experience into making sure that you kind of de risk some of the projects that you guys work on?
Reed Goossens 26:21
Here? Look, I think in general, most you know, deals go south, and this is from everything from ground up construction to, to buying existing assets. And this is not just multifamily could be anything even small as doing fix and flips, which I know you're very, very familiar with. It comes down to management of people, right, and that you can you can make money when you buy but you can lose it really quickly through bad management, that's property management, that's construction management, that's, you know, management of the GC, all these management of keeping people in the boat rowing in the same direction. So really my job to de risk that is making sure clear communication, being you know, being a leader and effective leader in empowering my team to think like I would think as an owner, and making sure that people feel supported in their decisions they make on the day to day basis. So I'm not also becoming a bottleneck and goes back to that making sure that the manage that the team is managing it as if they own it. So all those things have been very eye opening and is now building this in scaling this business, it comes down to people, both people who's the bum in the seat at the property, who's looking at the Daily leases, and looking at the financials, financials each and every day, who's making the decisions on how we grow the rent, you know, obviously, I'm backing into that, and I'm very much dictating that, but who's who's going and executing it on a day to day basis for and from each deal will be some nuance difference, particularly coming through COVID, which we can talk a little bit about in a second. But those types of things matter, right, they matter how you manage your GC and how he gives you the best pricing on your turning units. So you can really turn the screws on him and say, Well, hey, I've got another 100 units to give you, I need you to jam this price right down because it ain't effective. For me right now, because I'm getting to scale. It's also using the property management company where we started out a three and a half percent property management fee when we first started, we're now down to 2.75%. Right we're getting, we're able to share staff between assets, all these things help in de risking the probability of a deal going south. But that's come through scale. And that's the beauty of building wealth is through true scale and using be creating a business ecosystem within all the elements of the business to help de leite de risk, a particular asset that you bring on board, because you have the systems in place because you have the people the right people to execute. So now when we go and look at deals, I know exactly what the property management is, I know who exactly I'm to call it the property management company, from the regional point of view, say, Hey, have you heard of this deal? What do you think of this deal? I'm calling my GC directly and saying, Hey, let's get on site and give me a pricing on what you think certain things need to be done. I've got a pricing on my side of the fence, and let's compare notes. And then making sure that you understand from a banking point of view, having those relationships to know that you're going to get the deal done with the bank, because right now Freddie's bit weird, you know, so don't do any go down different paths, from a banking relationships point of view. So all those relationships that just, again, boils down to management of people. And that, to me, is really the crux of how you make a deal successful or not.
Steven Pesavento 29:22
Yeah, and and it's all built around the processes that you guys have been able to implement and continue to effectively change and adapt to whatever situation we're dealing with. And we're, we're we're in a unique time where the markets changing or the world's changing because of COVID. And so how has that impacted you? And and what are you doing in order to continue to scale despite the challenges that are happening within the world?
Reed Goossens 29:48
Yeah, well, so when COVID first hit was a very eye opening thing for us. You know, no one's experienced this around the globe. So it was first time in a century, making sure that we had You know, we were there to support our not only our investors, but support our tenants, right, making sure that without tenants, we don't have a business, making sure that the staff felt safe, particularly in the early days. And now it's getting through to the sort of the tail end or not the tail end of it that long in the tooth in terms of, you know, how you manage that and how you make sure that, you know, the eviction eviction memorandum, it comes into place if people can't pay, making sure you're managing the books on that point of view. So that's probably been the most challenging part is understanding how we manage all the different little nuances of, you know, showing that we're a good and friendly landlord, we want people to stay, but also working with those people to pay the rent on time, and communicating that effectively. So that we don't miss a payment. We don't we don't miss distributions to investors, and then on the backside, making sure the investors know that, hey, we're going through a very unique situation right now. And each deal is going to be a little bit different depending on where you are through your value added process and how you've turning the rent roll. It also, you know, looking at certain sub markets and how you're attracting new leases, when no one wants to live in downtown CVDs anymore, your central business district. So all these things are different nuances to how we've struggled through, navigated, I should say not struggled how we've navigated through these uncertain times. And I think we've done a pretty good job, but we're not through the woods yet is coming into the slower leasing season of you know, the holidays, hopefully coming into 2021. Now that we got a vaccine, we will start to see, you know that the markets of old I think it will take a period of time. But overall, it's been a very, very good lesson in sort of, you know, building the calluses on your hands, so to speak, going through this crisis, because one of the biggest things we face as a young company is we don't have gray hair, I've got some grays in the back. But we're not like the old 7080 year old guy and like we've come in now we've come through, we're coming through a recession, we've been dealing with it. And that is powerful when you can talk from knowledge when you're talking to new investors about how you didn't deal with the COVID pandemic, how did you deal with your making sure investors were their investments was remained safe with you, you know, as a steward of capital. So all those things are really important and helps us grow the business from a marketing point of view, because we can speak from knowledge because we're in the trenches doing it day in day out.
Steven Pesavento 32:14
Yeah, I think that that makes so much sense. It's been amazing having you so I'm curious, how can people find out more about you or get in touch?
Reed Goossens 32:21
Yeah, easiest way is go to read goossens.com That's where all sort of marketing stuff is. If you're interested to hear about any of the deals we got going on, go over to wild horn cap cip.com and you can reach out to me at either of those sites.
Steven Pesavento 32:34
Awesome. Well, it was it was a pleasure. I look forward to the next time we get to hang out buddy
Steven Pesavento 32:41
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