In this episode of the Investor Mindset Podcast, host Steven Pesavento sits down with Kyle McDowell, author of "Begin with We: Ten Principles for Building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence." Kyle shares his transformative journey from being a traditional boss to an impact-driven leader, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing others' growth and development. Together, they explore key principles for creating a culture of excellence, challenging the status quo, and embracing vulnerability. Whether you're a corporate executive, entrepreneur, or simply seeking personal growth, Kyle's insights will inspire you to lead with purpose and make a lasting impact.
Key Takeaways
Resources Mentioned
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About our Guest:
Kyle McDowell is the author of "Begin with We: Ten Principles for Building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence." With over 28 years of experience in corporate America, Kyle's journey from a traditional boss to an impact-driven leader has reshaped his approach to leadership. Through his coaching and consulting work, Kyle empowers individuals and organizations to prioritize others' growth, challenge the status quo, and lead with authenticity and purpose. His transformative insights inspire others to create lasting impact in both their professional and personal lives.
Are you looking for High-Performance Business & Mindset Coaching? Schedule a call now and see how we can be of service to you. http://www.investormindset.com/discover
00;00;00;25 - 00;00;09;21
Steven Pesavento
Welcome back to the Investor Mindset Podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Evento, and today we've got Kyle McDowell in the studio. How you doing today, Kyle?
00;00;09;24 - 00;00;13;04
Kyle McDowell
I'm wonderful, Stephen. Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
00;00;13;06 - 00;00;30;18
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, I'm glad to have you because I can tell we have a lot of things in common. You're very impact driven and you're at a new place in your life where you've released this new book, Begin with We Ten Principles for Building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence. So definitely touch on some of those principles from the book.
00;00;30;26 - 00;00;44;14
Steven Pesavento
But before we get into the things that you've learned and are applying out there in the corporate world, tell me, when you look back earlier in your life, what events or influences from your childhood shaped who you are today?
00;00;44;16 - 00;01;10;25
Kyle McDowell
Great question. I mean, like so many of us, I was raised. I played sports from from a very early age, and I was really lucky, although I didn't realize it at the time. But I was really lucky to have a couple of parents that were hard charging, incredible work ethic. They taught me the value of a dollar and how important it is to put out, put in the effort to see the outcome and the fruits of that effort.
00;01;10;27 - 00;01;29;24
Kyle McDowell
So I learned very early at a very early age that you want this. You got to work for that. And but but I was quick to learn early in my kind of athletic career. It's odd calling it a career because you can't make any money at it. But I was a I played football throughout my childhood through high school.
00;01;29;26 - 00;02;00;09
Kyle McDowell
I realized, you know, a lot of us just kind of go through the motions following others. You know, my favorite example is when we get off an airplane, everybody always invariably goes the same way. And sometimes we learn after about 30 yards that we're going the wrong way because the person up front just led and everybody followed. And I and I discovered at an early age that if you if you want to be someone that others look to for guidance, you can be that person.
00;02;00;10 - 00;02;18;04
Kyle McDowell
It just is a choice. You have to make the choice to allow yourself and put yourself in a position for others to follow. Now, some authenticity is required. You got to gain their trust and all those things. But I learned early on that the key to getting things done was was was through a team and rallying those on the team towards a common cause.
00;02;18;07 - 00;02;44;16
Steven Pesavento
I think there's something so powerful about that because when you grow up in an environment where you have to work with other people, you know, you've got to do your own individual contribution, but it's part of something that's that's greater than just you as the individual. I think that's really powerful, especially in today's society, where so many people are so focused on me, they're so focused on what's in it for me, how am I going to get mine, how am I going to get the emotion and grow?
00;02;44;19 - 00;03;13;10
Steven Pesavento
But yet, from a company perspective, and really from a societal perspective, the more that we collaborate work closely together, the more that we win together, the more that we win individually, which I think is a really powerful kind of foundation to build this conversation from. So one of the things that we talk about on the investor mindset is really about creating a great life and money is important and relationships are important and impact's important.
00;03;13;12 - 00;03;34;01
Steven Pesavento
One of the things that I really noticed in your work is this idea of the difference between a boss versus a leader, because I've definitely seen the difference in my own life. I worked in corporate America for many years. I've been an entrepreneur for a few decades and when you're showing up and truly leading people, things definitely are much better.
00;03;34;01 - 00;03;38;27
Steven Pesavento
So from your perspective, what's the difference and why does it matter?
00;03;39;00 - 00;04;07;18
Kyle McDowell
Well, I think I'm quite I'm I am the person to tell you the difference between boss and a leader, because I've been both. I spent the first 20 plus years of my 28 year career and in corporate America as one hell of a boss. I was a hard charging bang. My fist on the desk results at all costs, never shy to flex my authority on those around me.
00;04;07;20 - 00;04;32;29
Kyle McDowell
And boy, did I have it all wrong. And it was it was probably around year 22, 23 that I discovered I was going about it all wrong. When I started to realize the people around me who I thought had tremendous amount of respect for me, turns out they just feared me. There wasn't respect. There was fear. So so for me, the way I would describe it today is, you know, let's be clear.
00;04;32;29 - 00;04;55;27
Kyle McDowell
A leader and a boss have a lot of the same responsibilities. You know, the hiring, the firing, the disciplinary things that come with leading a team, you know, all of those things, budget stuff. There's a an a Venn diagram. There is a lot of of of common activities that the leader sets him or herself apart first by the fact that they care about those around them.
00;04;56;00 - 00;05;18;01
Kyle McDowell
They're not just for themselves, their own growth, accolades, their own title that, you know, fancy corner office, those things they care about, those around them. In fact, they care about them so much, they invest more time and energy into their into others growth and development than they do their own. In the beautiful thing that happens when we do that is when we invest our time and energy and most of all our care into those around us.
00;05;18;04 - 00;05;44;26
Kyle McDowell
We lift them up and they are in most cases better off for our efforts, which means the team is now performing and better off for our efforts. But ultimately the spotlight shines back on the person who put that group together, who leads them. And that's that's the leader. So I think when you when you are overt and purposeful about the amount of care and investment you put in those around you, that is what separates yourself from a boss.
00;05;44;28 - 00;06;08;28
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, it's interesting because it's counterintuitive. The thought that I believe often comes up, I know it's come up for me in the past has been, well, I need to protect my own. When I go into this conversation, into this effort, into this negotiation or when I am in a position to be in charge of others, I need to make sure that I get the outcome that I'm personally looking for.
00;06;09;00 - 00;06;30;26
Steven Pesavento
But the irony of it is that when you step into that leadership position and you look at, well, what is the outcome those individuals need and how can we help them get that outcome while also delivering the company outcome. Then you have people who are motivated from another frequency versus being motivated from fear, because fear is a super powerful motivator.
00;06;30;26 - 00;06;39;24
Steven Pesavento
By fear also is a negative energy and it doesn't propel you forward as soon as somebody's not watching.
00;06;39;27 - 00;07;00;28
Kyle McDowell
Well, and it's not sustainable either, right? So you can you can bang on and in and beat on a team member as long as they will stick around. So it's not just especially in today's environment, the workforce today has more. We have more choices than ever. We have more options than than probably in the history of mankind in terms of where we can take our talents.
00;07;01;01 - 00;07;32;23
Kyle McDowell
And I would just add this. When you reach a point in your career that when you realize the profound value and benefit that comes from prioritize in the needs of others, those that you lead in front of your own, the impact that you start to have and let's just face it, how good it feels to have an impact and help someone along their journey is is is really a feeling that can only be can only be described if you've ever felt it.
00;07;32;25 - 00;07;57;20
Kyle McDowell
Look, I led 15,000 people my last two jobs, rather. I led more than 30,000 people collectively. There's no chance that I could have been anywhere near as successful as I was or had the impact that I think I had without recognizing that I was outnumbered. And I needed those around me to be my best, but also to help them be their best for us to be our best.
00;07;57;23 - 00;08;17;23
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, I mean, I've experienced that shift towards a focus on impacts on my own life and maybe we'll talk about that in a second. But for for most people that are in kind of a survival mindset, they're very focused on, hey, how do I protect myself? How do I make sure I just get enough? How do I keep my role?
00;08;17;24 - 00;08;43;26
Steven Pesavento
How do I make sure the company knows that I am valuable? It can be difficult when hearing this focus on others and this focus on impact to believe that it's actually worth spending the time, the energy, the effort in investing in a people, especially in a day and age where younger generations are expecting to leave a job every year, they're not expecting to stay in that career with that company for the long term.
00;08;43;28 - 00;08;59;21
Steven Pesavento
Instead, they're looking to be able to jump. And so what allowed you to make that shift personally, and what do you recommend for others to be able to step into that leader, impact driven leader type mindset to experience what that feeling really feels like?
00;08;59;23 - 00;09;23;20
Kyle McDowell
Yeah. Hey man, I am I am not naive on this topic in that there's I'm certain there are members of your audience today that that may not subscribe to to this approach to the way we approach and the selfless approach. And I get that. And I also understand you said a moment ago that there are those that feel kind of trapped in there, just kind of going through the motions.
00;09;23;23 - 00;09;43;26
Kyle McDowell
I get that as well. And I respect that. If you've made that decision, you made the choice to kind of keep your head down. Not not, not kind of disturb the waters in order to keep the paycheck coming. Hebrew obligations met. You are not wrong. Respect. I understand that. That is that is that is one way to go about your business.
00;09;43;26 - 00;10;01;19
Kyle McDowell
It's not wrong. However, when you when you just like you made the choice to keep your head down and not necessarily disturb the waters, you can also make a choice to have a bigger impact than just a job if you're in a position of authority. By the way, as you just mentioned, it's doesn't make you a leader. It makes you a boss.
00;10;01;22 - 00;10;31;09
Kyle McDowell
If you're in that position of authority, choosing to have an impact much greater than just the functions required of the job is is is really the ground for the ground floor of of of leading in in in delivering an impact. You make that choice to say I'm not going to look at my job as just a job. I'm going to look at my job in a way that allows me to bring the most out of others, have an impact on what it is that we're trying to get done in.
00;10;31;09 - 00;10;52;09
Kyle McDowell
All, by the way, and when members of my team are at home in the evenings having dinner with their children and significant others, they're going to talk about the way that I led that day, the way that I behaved, how I treated them. And I think those are all really important filters to think about when when we decide what we want our leadership legacy to be.
00;10;52;09 - 00;11;11;26
Kyle McDowell
You know, those are two words a lot of people don't use togetherness, leadership, legacy. For me, I had a very central moment that that drove this transformation, Steve. And I was as I mentioned, I was that hard charging guy, really focused on my own growth, my own accolades, my own corner office, the fancy titles, my next bonus, all these things.
00;11;11;28 - 00;11;35;12
Kyle McDowell
But there was a moment in my career where I became so disenfranchized with the whole corporate America engine. I'd seen so much toxicity, duplicity, siloed, you know, people just being really inauthentic. And let's not be naive. There are bad actors in the world. There are bad actors in corporate America where they actually view for them to win, someone else must lose.
00;11;35;12 - 00;11;57;07
Kyle McDowell
So I checked out. I had enough. This is back in 2016, 2017. I got out of a big, big role with one of the largest insurers in in America, maybe the world at that time. And I said, I told myself, I'm not going back into this fray unless I am given an opportunity to lead in a way that I have never led.
00;11;57;07 - 00;12;27;22
Kyle McDowell
And I want to be the leader that I that I've always wanted to be. And I will drive the next transformation because there was always a theme of transformation and and cultural turnaround in each of the each of my roles, each of my stops in corporate America. Well, I had to be careful what you wish for moment. So I was I got a call a couple of weeks after I stepped away and said basically was presented with an opportunity to start conversations around leading a team of 15,000 people running the Affordable Care Act and one 800 Medicare enrollment centers.
00;12;27;24 - 00;12;47;06
Kyle McDowell
But I was told that there was some some dysfunction that had to be addressed and some cultural things that needed to be cleaned up, which is, you know, I was no stranger to that. I took that role. But I realized very, very early on in that role that the tenure of the leadership team that was already in place was significant, I think over a dozen years at that time.
00;12;47;09 - 00;13;01;16
Kyle McDowell
So if I were to take the Kyle approach of old and that is to just to tell them how great I was and assure them everything was going to be okay, I was going to lead our team to greatness. They had heard all those things before back. The guy that had the role before me was pretty unceremoniously dismissed from the role.
00;13;01;19 - 00;13;25;22
Kyle McDowell
So they had seen this type of behavior before, but I wanted to be different. So that's when I created these principles that are now the foundation of my book. Begin with we. And these principles proceeded to change the absolute the entire makeup of this organization in terms of the results that they delivered, the leadership acumen, the growth of the leaders within that organization.
00;13;25;24 - 00;13;40;03
Kyle McDowell
And I left that organization back in 2019, and I still have regular touchpoints and one on ones with the leadership group of that team because that's the impact that we had on each other in those days. It's a lifelong connection now.
00;13;40;05 - 00;14;14;10
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, well, I think I think it's really important to underline that the the relevance of this conversation is absolutely 100% career in business, and yet it is as relevant in your family, in your relationships, in your partnerships, in your investments, in everything that you do in your life. That when you listen to the simple reminders, the simple concepts that we're talking about here, that these actually can apply to almost everything you do.
00;14;14;13 - 00;14;50;00
Steven Pesavento
And so if you're motivated by the idea of applying this in your business or in your career, amazing, what a great place to do it. And the outcome can be phenomenal. But this same practice can be applied regardless of what what you're doing. Because when you come at things with this other mindset, with what's in it for them before what's in it for me knowing secretly that it is actually selfish because when we give to others and we come from that place, we end up receiving so much more in the end.
00;14;50;03 - 00;15;32;05
Kyle McDowell
Rather you just, you just hit on probably the biggest unexpected byproduct of of this journey that I'm on. So my book came out in late 22 and instantly became a Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller. And I spent the fall. I spent the year plus after that almost exclusively evangelizing the importance of these principles inside the workplace, not realizing that I was slowly starting to make them my own personal kind of manifesto for how I behave, how I treat everyone, not just those I work with, but my wife, my friends and family and other loved ones.
00;15;32;07 - 00;16;06;21
Kyle McDowell
And I'll tell you a really quick story. When it cemented the impact that we can all have once we make the decision to live a principle based life and then lead with principles in mind. I gave a talk to a major automotive manufacturer late last year, and at the end of the talk, this this really athletic big, burly guy, shaved head kind of intimidating figure, stands up in a group of executives says if you listen to what this man has to say and embrace these principles, it will change your life.
00;16;06;21 - 00;16;28;20
Kyle McDowell
Never mind the work life. It will change your life. For me, it's changed how I raise my children, he shared. I was overweight and a teared up in front of this group of executives. I just sat back down on my stool behind a little podium. I said, Guys, I got nothing else to say. So your observation, Stephen, is so spot on there should be no separation for how we behave in the workplace versus how we behave in our personal lives.
00;16;28;20 - 00;16;43;02
Kyle McDowell
If we want to be viewed as someone who was authentic. And that was something that is a point of pride for me. I never wanted to be coined as a hypocrite. So when I'm out evangelizing these principles, I have to do it in everything that I do. And that's putting that focus on everyone else around me, not just myself.
00;16;43;02 - 00;16;45;10
Kyle McDowell
Regardless of the scenario.
00;16;45;12 - 00;17;04;13
Steven Pesavento
Well, I think it's so easy to get stuck in this fear, this lack of abundance type mindset around things in your life where, you know, we've been taught, go to school, get a job, work for four and K, hope someone else is going to take care of us. And people are waking up to realizing that they do need to take some ownership over their life.
00;17;04;16 - 00;17;22;23
Steven Pesavento
But the irony around that is that when you do take ownership and you come at it from the kind of principles that we're talking about, not only do you enjoy life more, but you make a heck of a lot more money. You know, there's a phenomenal book called The Second Mountain, which you have. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it.
00;17;22;25 - 00;17;49;27
Steven Pesavento
And it's all about this concept of, you know, individualism versus relationship ism, the idea of community and impact, and that when you live on that other side of the ledger, let up when you live on the other side of that equation that you're you enjoy life so much more. It's so much more fulfilling. And I think it leads into something that I'm noticing a lot in the world today is that there's a lack of purpose.
00;17;50;00 - 00;18;06;17
Steven Pesavento
And so when you go to work and you check out and you don't care about the other people, you keep your head down, you're missing that purpose. And so you're empty inside. And we need to bring that back. And I think some of these principles is a great way to do that. So we don't have time to talk about all the principles.
00;18;06;17 - 00;18;19;07
Steven Pesavento
And I know they all build on one another, but where should we start in giving people a little taste of what some of these simple concepts can do when you when you package them together and follow a set of principles?
00;18;19;10 - 00;18;44;11
Kyle McDowell
I think the first step for me, and I would encourage your audience to to to consider this, and that was just establishing the principles in general, right? I was in a hotel room the night before I was going to meet with the top 40 or 50 leaders of that organization. And I, I made the choice to say, I want to know ambiguity because I truly believe ambiguity is the enemy of progress.
00;18;44;14 - 00;19;07;21
Kyle McDowell
So if I wanted us to to progress, I needed to set some guideposts. And that's what the principles are, is they set kind of boundaries for how we behave in my my rule for the team then and still today, both in my in my coaching business, but as well as is anyone that I interact with. I guess I should say is is these principles govern how we treat each other first.
00;19;07;23 - 00;19;26;05
Kyle McDowell
That's number one. Because if we're high functioning behind the curtain, we are much better positioned to deliver excellence externally. So we've got to take care of each other behind the curtain first. If you ask me to pick any one of the ten ways that have been the most impactful or profound for me, without question, it's we number eight, and that is we challenge each other.
00;19;26;07 - 00;19;45;08
Kyle McDowell
You hinted at earlier, and I think we've all felt this throughout most of our careers, or at least most of us have felt it, that, you know, challenges are essentially reserved for the boss, the person who is in a position of authority to say, please go do this, go do that. We're heading down this path. Let's go whatever the scenario is, those challenges always came from high up.
00;19;45;11 - 00;20;14;19
Kyle McDowell
And I think that's limiting. There's a reason an NFL team with 53 men on the roster has one head coach and myriad number of assistant coaches and coordinators and otherwise, because one person cannot possibly bring the most in the best out of 53 other people corporate world and basically any team environment is no different. And that if you want to get to the best results, if you want to achieve excellence and reach new heights, challenges must come from every angle.
00;20;14;22 - 00;20;39;02
Kyle McDowell
The boss must be vulnerable enough to take challenges. Peers should challenge peers diplomatically. I always add in a challenge must be grounded in one of two things in this world. It must be grounded in either data or experience. Otherwise, it's just your opinion. And that's not helpful. But if you have data or experience and you challenge the boss or you challenge a peer or someone on your team to be better because of this data or experience, we should we should listen.
00;20;39;02 - 00;21;09;06
Kyle McDowell
We should be obligated to listen. And I think this is the principle that has been the most transformative for me, both as a leader inside of corporate America, but also my personal life, because the connection to We number eight and we number nine cannot be lost. And we number nine is we embrace challenge. And as you mentioned, if we take these things on, regardless of what sphere our personal life or business life, whatever, we have a much better opportunity to be, to feel a sense of belonging, fulfillment and passion for what we do.
00;21;09;08 - 00;21;31;08
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, and this is one of the things that's absolutely missing in a lot of cultures and a corporate level, let alone in social circles, is people's ability to be comfortable and accept the idea of being challenged, to be able to say, Hey, you know, I didn't think about it like that. Tell me, where you coming from there? Yeah, well, what led you to that belief or why do you think this is?
00;21;31;08 - 00;21;51;07
Steven Pesavento
You know, the best way to go about it and to say, Hey, well, this is actually what I think. What do you think about that? And to be able to have a conversation, but more importantly, to be able to have a container, to be able to bring up difficult things so that anybody in the organization has the ability to be able to push up those suggestions that can lead towards the numbers in the organization.
00;21;51;07 - 00;21;52;24
Steven Pesavento
Changing for everyone.
00;21;52;27 - 00;22;14;05
Kyle McDowell
Yep. Well, and again, back to scale. It's like if you're leading a team of more than a couple, you are mistaken if you feel as if you know what's going on in the front line, you if the higher you ascend inside of an organization, as you know, the less likely you are to have real 1 to 1 contact with those that purchase your services.
00;22;14;07 - 00;22;28;26
Kyle McDowell
So to not listen to those that are in those interactions and do hear from your clients on a daily basis and not take their input and be open to their challenges. I think it's just arrogance and I think it's really short sighted way to to lead.
00;22;28;28 - 00;22;41;27
Steven Pesavento
So what do you suggest that leaders or organizations do to change the culture so that people do feel like they can step up, speak up, they can make mistakes and they're going to be learned from?
00;22;42;00 - 00;23;01;05
Kyle McDowell
Yeah, it's a that's a tough one. It really is tough because I'm not naive that everyone has a different scenario. We all have obligations and there are reasons why we may not want to put our hand up to say, I'm going to lead this transformation. So the first step is really just some some self-reflection and some introspection. I use what I call the mirror of truth.
00;23;01;07 - 00;23;26;02
Kyle McDowell
In the mirror of truth is really just a metaphor for me to have some quiet time to say, Is this who I want to be? Is this worth where I'm going? Is this challenge I want to take on? Is this who I want to be portrayed as? You know, really some some deep interest introspection? And I think that is the first step is recognizing that what I'm about to take on if I'm going to lead this transformation or I want to turn around the culture of this organization, I have to know it's going to be hard.
00;23;26;04 - 00;23;46;01
Kyle McDowell
It's going to create more work for me. It's going to be difficult. And it's not a one and done. It's not a two and done. It is a journey that never, ever ends. So if you've made that decision that you you have what it takes. You feel as if you are ready to drive a transformation. I think the very next step is to document your principles.
00;23;46;04 - 00;24;01;26
Kyle McDowell
What are the rules of the road? How do you want the team to engage one another? How do you want the team to engage with you and be very explicit? There's no subliminal approach here. You've got to be very overt and specific to say these are how we operate. And if I'm not going to operate this way, if I'm going to operate this way, you're going to operate this way.
00;24;01;26 - 00;24;18;13
Kyle McDowell
And if I'm not, I want you to call me out because I will call you out as well. So being purposeful about the path ahead, setting those expectations for behavior for those around you and picking people up at every chance you get when they stumble because you want them to be in an environment where they do. We number four and that's we take action.
00;24;18;20 - 00;24;27;22
Kyle McDowell
No one's going to take action if they know they're going get beaten over the head, if they stumble or make a mistake. So you've got to create that environment that allows people to take action but also make mistakes.
00;24;27;25 - 00;24;47;25
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, it's really creating a culture of rewarding and celebrating the failures. As long as the team is actually learning from them, that's going to lead people to being willing to take the risk. Because if everyone's been, you know, their hands been slapped every time they took action and it didn't work out, they're going to are learning, hey, maybe I just shouldn't do anything.
00;24;47;25 - 00;25;20;03
Steven Pesavento
I'll just kind of hang back. So one of the principles that I personally love and agree with is the principle all around getting results, being very outcome focused. So you'll tell me exactly what the wording is on that in a second. But one of the things that I often hear from people and I think there's there is a good justification to the idea of being process minded and focusing on doing the right activities and celebrating doing the right activities, because sometimes the outcome isn't always in your control.
00;25;20;06 - 00;25;31;18
Steven Pesavento
And so how do you think people can balance that being outcome minded yet celebrate in the actions that they're taking towards getting there, even if it doesn't result in that outcome?
00;25;31;20 - 00;25;55;29
Kyle McDowell
Before you frame that question really well and and of all of the ten ways, believe it or not, this is the one I get the most pushback. But I've had people out now disagree. Here's the spirit the we as we number seven it's we measure ourselves by outcomes, not activity. Like it or not in the world that we're in, we are paid for outcomes.
00;25;55;29 - 00;26;13;28
Kyle McDowell
I am so thrilled that when I call for the Uber and an Uber that the driver shows up and the car has enough fuel to get me from A to B, but I didn't pay the Uber driver to go get gas before they pick me up. I'm paying for the transportation from A to B, They had to do that activity.
00;26;13;28 - 00;26;38;21
Kyle McDowell
They had to go get gas and fill that fill that tank up to deliver the outcome. I'm paying for the outcome. So this manifest itself more often than not in organizations that are so heavily focused on meetings. I lived it for so many years and I'm sure members of your audience did. We are meeting to death inside of the corporate world.
00;26;38;21 - 00;26;59;24
Kyle McDowell
We have a meeting to talk about the next meeting, and then let's have a meeting to debrief on the meeting that we just had. And in nearly every single workplace survey, I will I'll go as far to say every workplace survey respondents always indicate at a very high percentage that I attend meetings that add no value to the work that I'm doing, which is a travesty.
00;26;59;26 - 00;27;28;26
Kyle McDowell
We want our teams to be focused on delivering outcomes. Yes, activity is required to deliver those outcomes, but we have to be purposeful about the activities that we're taking on and see if there's a direct line between this activity and the outcome for which I've been that I've been assigned to deliver. Said differently. If you find yourself engaged in something in the workplace that you cannot directly connect an outcome that is either something you've agreed to deliver for a client, maybe you're your boss or leader is expecting it.
00;27;28;26 - 00;27;48;25
Kyle McDowell
Maybe it's on your annual appraisal. Whatever it is, there's an expectation that this outcome be delivered. If the activity in which you are engaged does not directly contribute to that outcome, it should be scrutinized. I'm not saying you just stop doing it, but it should be scrutinized. Am I am I am I spending and making the best use of this time to get the outcomes that I that I expect you to get?
00;27;48;27 - 00;28;06;05
Kyle McDowell
We've gotten to this place now in so many environments that we reward activity. In my coaching business, I meet with executives all the time who say they're so overwhelmed, they're meeting overload. I had an h.r. Professional recently. Say i had 13 meetings yesterday. Kyle and she were like it was a badge of honor. It's not a badge of honor.
00;28;06;07 - 00;28;21;22
Kyle McDowell
I don't look at it that way. It doesn't impress me at 30 meetings. Tell me about the outcomes that came from those meetings. If you had them, then the meetings were necessary. But if you can't point to the board meeting being moved forward and as a result of every single one of those meetings, I would challenge why? Why did you have them?
00;28;21;22 - 00;28;24;00
Kyle McDowell
Why? Why did you participate?
00;28;24;02 - 00;28;48;17
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, in the small business or medium size business world, outcome driven business is the only way that these organization wins can exist. But as you grow a business, as you start layering on managers, people do start celebrating activity and sometimes doing activity that doesn't end up leading to an outcome really isn't worth celebrating. It's worth changing and it's worth challenging the status quo.
00;28;48;19 - 00;29;13;23
Steven Pesavento
So I think there is a place for both. There's a place to celebrate that, okay, if I'm a salesperson, I did my 100 calls, I talked to 20 people. I'm making progress. I can't necessarily control the outcome because it's a long sales cycle, but I can absolutely influence it. But at the end of the day, the results of my pay in sales is going to be connected directly to whether or not the company is going to make money.
00;29;13;25 - 00;29;17;13
Steven Pesavento
Otherwise, I don't have a role or that company doesn't exist.
00;29;17;16 - 00;29;52;20
Kyle McDowell
Well, well, you nailed it because that sales scenario that you mentioned, the outcome that I'm chasing is a sale. I'm trying to close a deal. So the activity is directly connected to that outcome. So, yes, our dialing whatever whatever activity it takes to close a deal, yeah, that is activity that you should be taking. Now, we could argue me going to a Chamber of Commerce meeting because I'm trying to find leads that may not be the best activity, but I know that whatever it takes to land that client and close that deal, the activity should absolutely be connected to to the outcome for which I've been assigned.
00;29;52;23 - 00;30;17;21
Steven Pesavento
It's one of the things I teach my team, very outcome driven because, you know, I run an investment firm, we invest in real estate and businesses and at the end of the day, when somebody invests 100,000 or a million or $10 million, they're not investing for the activity that we're doing. They're interested in the outcome. They want the results, they want the money, they want the cash flow, and they want to have a good experience.
00;30;17;21 - 00;30;42;21
Steven Pesavento
And so when you can think about, well, what is the outcome? well, I want to feel good about the investment. I want to be updated on it. I want my information to come in a timely manner. I also want to get that return. All of those are outcomes that a company can measure too. And so I think it's really powerful for those who are listening, who are in a role in a company to be thinking like that, because then you're actually thinking like an owner, which is going to end up.
00;30;42;21 - 00;30;43;03
Kyle McDowell
Yeah.
00;30;43;04 - 00;30;47;12
Steven Pesavento
Allowing you to own your role and make big changes in your career.
00;30;47;15 - 00;31;18;12
Kyle McDowell
And I'll take it a step further, man. Imagine that investment margin. A client has just dropped 5 million bucks with your firm that you are now tasked with, with investing whatever the engine is. And the outcome that you discussed is has been has been kind of assigned or at least loosely articulated. Imagine what they would do or how they would feel or think if they knew that you were engaged in ten meetings the day before or their rep, Whoever is assigned to this client.
00;31;18;12 - 00;31;39;05
Kyle McDowell
Right, was engaged in ten meetings the day before. Busy as all hell. But none of those none. Not a single one of those meetings had anything to do with that. 5 million bucks had nothing to do with the outcomes that they they would hate to hear that. Right. Customers don't. Customers are not impressed with the number of meetings that we have every day.
00;31;39;05 - 00;32;01;04
Kyle McDowell
Customers are impressed by the outcomes that we deliver, and that's how the world measures us. So we've got to get away. And by the way, you should know and I'm sure you've seen this and I know members of your audience has have seen this, especially in really big companies. It's a skill to stay under the radar, to be very busy and not deliver a single thing.
00;32;01;07 - 00;32;18;28
Kyle McDowell
I've worked with these people for years throughout most of my career. They are very good at nodding their head yes and agreeing with someone in a position of authority and not doing a single thing about it. Go on to the next meeting and just not ruffle any feathers. That is to me, that's soul sucking. It's mediocrity at its finest.
00;32;19;03 - 00;32;22;13
Kyle McDowell
But is it's pervasive in a lot of big organizations.
00;32;22;15 - 00;32;49;17
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, that's one of the worst things when I hear that as a business owner, I it just irks me not only because it hurts the business at a deep level, it slows things down. And I like to move fast, but it also hurts that individual person. It's like a lot of people have kind of given up on life, and I think that's really sad because don't be in the job if you don't if you don't enjoy it, find something that you do care about, you know?
00;32;49;17 - 00;33;02;17
Steven Pesavento
And I know for you, you've kind of shifted gears. You run a business, you're speaking and teaching and helping other people. How has your life changed as you've stepped into that entrepreneurial type role for yourself?
00;33;02;19 - 00;33;25;22
Kyle McDowell
Boy, it's scary. It is scary, right? So I was a W-2 guy at massive organizations for 28 years, but I felt a calling and an obligation to evangelize this work where I had seen such big transformations and and the fulfillment that came with with those transformations that I felt like it was an obligation to start my own thing.
00;33;25;24 - 00;33;58;15
Kyle McDowell
So I've been at it now this this entrepreneurial journey of mine for going on three years. I got to tell you, man, I if you asked me to to to describe some of the bigger wins that I ever had inside of corporate America, you know, whether it be business accomplishments, a CRM implementation or a merger that we completed or whatever, I would probably take a little bit of time to find a couple of examples that I would be really proud to share with you.
00;33;58;15 - 00;34;25;07
Kyle McDowell
But if you asked me since I left Corp Corporate America, the impact that I feel is that I've been able to have and help others along their journey. We'd be here a long time, brother, because the list is long, and I don't say that to pat myself on the back at all. At all. I say that to illuminate what happens when you make a choice to invest your energy and time into others, the outcome will be there.
00;34;25;09 - 00;34;48;19
Kyle McDowell
The fulfillment that comes with it is exponentially profound versus versus just kind of head down going, going through the motions. So for me, it was it is I feel as if it's an obligation to do what I'm doing, which makes what I'm doing that much more exciting. Hey, remember this man when we all enter the workforce? I think so, anyway.
00;34;48;19 - 00;35;10;13
Kyle McDowell
We all enter the workforce. We come in with optimism, we come in with excitement. We want to make a difference. We want to have a big impact. And over time, through a variety of really good reasons, we lose that. And I think it's the leaders obligation, regardless of the setting, to reignite that passion, to reignite that excitement and optimism.
00;35;10;15 - 00;35;32;01
Kyle McDowell
And that might even mean helping someone go to another company. That could mean getting someone off of the team because they're better off somewhere else and your team is better off without them. But they still deserve an opportunity to go find that fulfillment again. We just have to we have to help each other. Remember that. Remember that optimism and the impact that we wanted to have instead of just going through the motions and waiting for the next paycheck?
00;35;32;04 - 00;35;52;24
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, I think I think it's such a powerful example of what entrepreneurship and investing can do, that when you take ownership and you decide, Hey, this is the direction I'm going to go, I'm going to take the risk, I'm going to do the hard things, I'm going to find something that I can personally connect to at a heart level and use my mind to be able to help get me there so amazing things can happen.
00;35;53;01 - 00;36;03;26
Steven Pesavento
This has been a great interview, Kyle. I'd love to get deeper into the entrepreneurial side, but we're out of time for today, so why don't you share with the audience where they can follow you or get a copy of the book?
00;36;03;29 - 00;36;24;01
Kyle McDowell
Yeah, thank you for that. So the book is begin with We Ten Principles for Building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence. So Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller. It started as a passion project. Man. We've just we just passed the 10,000 copies sold. Mark and I could not be more more humbled by that. My website is pretty simple.
00;36;24;01 - 00;36;49;24
Kyle McDowell
It's Kyle MacDowell income, and I'm essentially on every social media platform at Kyle McDowell, Inc. And I'm glad you asked how to reach me because I don't I don't share those social media handles for clout or followers, and that's not my game. I'm here to help. And not usually a week goes by without someone reaching out, sharing their experience, sharing a problem that they're facing, or looking for guidance along their journey.
00;36;49;27 - 00;36;56;13
Kyle McDowell
And I take that very seriously and I'm happy to apply. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to to in the platform to share that.
00;36;56;16 - 00;37;16;15
Steven Pesavento
Yeah, it was great having you on. And I think for the listeners go out and buy a copy of this book and when you buy it, recognize that the principles are simple, but together they make a powerful impact. And when you can share that with people on your team, you can bring everybody in to the same vision that you want to set out in the world.
00;37;16;15 - 00;37;20;26
Steven Pesavento
So thank you so much, Kyle. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next week.