This week we're introducing a new segment called "The Best Of..." where we throw back to some of the best episodes we've had on the show thus far. So we’re going to kick off with one of the best episodes we've ever had: Mr Chris Voss! Chris takes us through the art of negotiating and how getting the other person to talk first is absolutely crucial to achieving a great result.
This week we're introducing a new segment called "The Best Of..." where we throw back to some of the best episodes we've had on the show thus far. So we’re going to kick off with one of the best episodes we've ever had: Mr Chris Voss! Chris takes us through the art of negotiating and how getting the other person to talk first is absolutely crucial to achieving a great result.
Matt: [00:00:00] Hi guys, this is Matt, the producer of The Investor Mindset Podcast, and today I've got something new for you in the best of series. We'll be sharing the best clips from the best interviews that we've had on the Investor Mindset show thus far. So let's kick things off with Chris Voss and learn how you can become a master negotiator.
Intro: [00:00:25] This is the investor mindset podcast and I'm Steven Pesavento. For as long as I can remember, I've been obsessed with understanding how we can think better, how we can be better, and how we can do better. In each episode, we explore lessons on motivation and mindset for the most successful real estate investors and entrepreneurs in the nation.
Matt: [00:00:50] When I'm sitting down with a homeowner, or I'm sitting down with a realtor, or an investor or somebody in between, and they're telling me that they don't have the power to make the decision, that there are all these other important people that are up the chain, that could be an indication that they're actually the decision-maker, and they're just trying to pass the buck so they have a little bit more power. Are there any other correlations that you think we want to point out for the listeners?
Chris: [00:01:16] Yeah, well, the flip side, a person at the table, the more important they make themselves, and conversely, the less powerful they are. The same dynamic and in reverse you got somebody at the table, who's really in love with singular personal pronouns the, I, me, my, I want this, my view, boy the more they use those singular pronouns, the less influence they have. So that's kind of a two-way street. If they're in love with plural pronouns, we, they, them, us, they're important. If they're in love with singular I, me, my, they're not that important. They're a good source of information. They're just not that important.
Matt: [00:01:58] They're almost trying to bring it back out of themselves to boost up their importance, boost up their worth, versus the people who already have it, don't need to, and they're trying to pull away because they know that could hurt them in the negotiation.
Chris: [00:02:11]That's exactly right. The guy's got no influence on the other side. It makes him feel important to pretend like he's got all that influence, like being in a bar, and a bartender's first night, and you ask them if they get some kind of bourbon. And he says, Well, I don't stock bourbon in my bar. And it's his first night, and he doesn't own the bar, and he might not be there in a month, got to make himself look important.
Matt: [00:02:38] I love that. Well, I can see so many practical applications and I hope everyone runs out and gets Never Split The Difference. And I want to let people know that Chris has offered a Never Split The Difference Study Guide that you guys will be able to sign up for. We'll have a link in the show notes and we'll let you know at the very end, how to get that when you get on the newsletter list, of course, and get some of these strategies regularly. But Chris, tell me if I'm a new negotiator, or maybe I've been studying the Getting to Yes, or I'm been going down this path of learning negotiation. I think, man, I want to apply some of this stuff. But I'm stuck in some old ways, what would be your recommendation of some of the strategies to start with, to start practicing and adding to your tool belt? And I know some of them include labeling, tactical empathy, mirroring, and there are so many others, but which ones to use seem like, these are the ones you need to add to your tool belt first, second, and third.
Chris: [00:03:34] Yeah, well, first of all, be willing to slow down just a little bit. Paraphrasing is real simple, somebody is talking to you, just before you ever want to make your point, try and paraphrase back to them a little bit, make them feel heard, make them feel understood. Paraphrase is not agreement, it's not disagreement, it's just like, Alright, so you got good reasons for this and those reasons are, and repeat back what they've been saying. And they'd be willing to go silent for a little bit, be willing to live with something. We used to call it effective pauses. Now we referred to it as dynamic silence because it's so powerful. So make people feel heard. Let them fill in the silence, keep quiet, and you're going to be surprised how many deals will make themselves you don't have to do anything. Just see if you can get the deal to make itself.
Matt: [00:04:29] So for all the listeners out there, that just means shut up for a second, let a little bit of space happen, and let people know that that you're hearing them out. After you've gotten good at allowing some space to be there, you've gotten comfortable with the silence. You don't have to fill it in. I know that I even get caught up in a podcast interview, getting ready to make sure to fill that silence. But let's say I've mastered that skill, what do I want to add on next and how do you recommend doing that?
Chris: [00:05:00] Well, the next great thing if somebody has really been heard out and the deal hasn't come to you, a great way to get things going again, and probably a very positive way. We live in a Las Vegas world, we don't live in an ivory tower world, the ivory tower world needs stuff that's perfect. The Las Vegas world just needs stuff that works more than half the time. A lot of casinos are built in Vegas on a 51% success rate. You just have to get over more than half and far higher than more than half, really more about a three-quarter success rate is after you've heard somebody else say, what you want to do next? How can we move forward effectively? They're going to throw something out that you're going to love, enough of the time that if it was a gambling system, that you don't Vegas, Steve Wynn would be your assistant. So, understand nothing is perfect, what you need is the best chance of success. And somewhere north of 70, 75%, which is enough to be quite wealthy, to say "what are the next steps?" "How do you want to proceed?" It's very deferential the other side, what you've done is you're shoving someone forward with that, you're cutting them off from backtracking, you're cutting them off from sidetracking. Actually, what are the next steps? How do you want to proceed? You've just boxed him in and forced them to move forward. Now, they don't feel that, especially if you said deferentially, they think it's their idea to figure out some next steps. The deal isn't gonna happen unless you figure out next the steps anyway. So see if they can figure out some good ones for you, it's a really effective way to move forward and save time because the whole issue here is a well-managed negotiation process that actually saves a lot of time.
Matt: [00:07:18] Getting them just to come up with the steps on their own?
Chris: [00:07:21] Yeah. It's because, most people talk about stuff, without even thinking about what the next steps are. As soon as the next steps are one of the principal things in your mind, you're going to start accelerating your success. And you get the next steps collaboratively and in the best way to get them from the other side in a way that they will remember what they are, is if they think they thought them. If you say, what are the next steps? How do you want to proceed? That doesn't mean you have to agree to whatever they throw up and be prepared to say, Yeah, I don't know, I don't think that's going to work. But it does give them the opportunity to throw something out there, one of the ways of negotiation is described, it's the art of letting the other side have your way. And that's the way you do it. What are the next steps? How do you want to proceed?
Matt: [00:08:18] That is some really powerful stuff, I hope all you guys are taking notes over here and if you're not, I encourage you to re-listen to this with a pen and paper in hand because this is stuff you can directly apply. It's going to make a difference in your business. I know I've bought, hundreds of houses because of some of these strategies and how effectively they work. So one thing I'm really curious about Chris, rapport seems to be such a big conversation in sales and negotiation. How do we go about building better rapport with people that maybe we don't even have that much in common with?
Chris: [00:08:53] Yeah, and that's what people -- that's the big issue. Common Ground, Is it necessary? Is it useful? People love common ground because they both feel fantastic. We were in a negotiation training that we ran a couple of months ago and two people discovered they both had the same name for their dog. And like, Oh my god, this is fantastic they talked about it but they didn't get anything done. So your dogs could have the same name, your kids could be in kindergarten together. You could be from the same state, that isn't going to make you a deal. And just because you're from the same state as somebody, does that mean you're going to give in on a point that you shouldn't give in on? Common Ground is really kind of a tricky area that feels great but isn't actually useful. So instead, what people want is to be understood, that's the whole idea of Common Ground. It's like hopefully if we got common ground, you're going to understand me. What would happen if I could understand you without being from your hometown, without being from your state, without our kids playing ball together, without us having the same name for our dogs. That was where hostage negotiators came from initially. It's had massive amounts of influence with no common ground whatsoever. So if you get rid of common ground as an idea, and just grasp how powerful it is to understand the other side, they feel the common ground.
Matt: [00:10:23] Well, it's because like, a lot of the time, we're not going to have common ground with people, we're just not We're in different worlds, maybe we're doing different things, we've got different goals and aspirations. Maybe one person over here is making a personal development, they're studying Chris Voss, they're learning to be a great negotiator. The other person is just trying to get food on the table or try to get to the next thing they've got going, and so sometimes that can be difficult to find. But how do we go about trying to get people to feel understood? And how can we actually build that rapport without needing that common ground to stand on?
Chris: [00:10:58] Yeah, because the feeling of understanding then definitely not just leads to rapport, but it leads to trust and trust-based influence. That's the most durable kind of influence I want and as you want somebody to feel understood, start repeating back to them what they've said. But let me just make sure I got this right, here are your reasons for this; It seems like, it sounds like, it looks like this is where you're coming from. And especially include, if you sense in any way, shape, or form, or even would guess that there's some sort of negativity involved, then you simply don't deny that negativity. Express it! Express an understanding and appreciation that it's there. It's like the proverbial "elephant in the room". The elephant in the room is misconceptions, prejudices, preconceived notions, and distrust. Nobody ever made the elephant in the room go away by either ignoring it or by denying it was there. People deal with the elephant in the room by pointing it out and then you say, there's an elephant in the room, but I don't care, It doesn't matter. If you want to say the word "but" that's the perfect time to shut the front door, it's a perfect time to stop talking. The words "but", "or", "and", should trigger an alarm bell in your brain, that should automatically close the front gate, close your jaws and get you to stop talking. That's a perfect time to use dynamic silence when you feel the word "but" ,"or", "and", coming out of your mouth. Then that should be an early warning system, that it's time to stop right where you are and let what you just said sink in.
Matt: [00:12:50] So pretty much, never say the word "but" because it's going to be an anchor, it's going to hold you back instead of moving you guys forward together.
Chris: [00:12:59] That's a bad word. My son, Brandon, who I believe has been a guest on your show, one of his favorite phrases is "nobody wants you to put your butt in their face", it doesn't develop rapport.
Matt: [00:13:15] That's amazing. So these are some amazing strategies and I hope that you guys are really seeing how this stuff can really make a difference in more than just your business life. Because, yes, it's going to help us get more deals, or it's going to help us build that relationship with these different clients or these different people. But it's going to help us in our personal life because think about it if you took away the word "but" from the relationship with your husband or wife, it's going to end up creating an environment where they really feel heard, listened to, and understood. I mean, that's what every husband or wife, I would assume wants. I know that's what every wife that I've ever talked to once.
Chris: [00:13:57] Yeah, and I got to tell you something, you can't have a great relationship without understanding the other side, it just can't happen and the important people in your life deserve that. They deserve to be understood and so consequently, you got opportunities to develop these skills every day. In the morning, at lunch, at night, this is the perfect time to get good at hearing people out because the more you do it, the more you build your abilities to do well.
OUTRO: [00:14:25] Thank you for listening to the Investor Mindset Podcast. If you like what you heard, make sure to rate, review, subscribe and share with a friend. Head over to TheInvestorMindset.com to join the insider club, where we share tools and strategies from the top investors and entrepreneurs and how to take it to the next level.